Model Railroading > New layout opinions revisited

This is a follow up to my last post. I have been playing around with some ideas this morning. Basically I need to start putting up some walls and the one thing I need to decide is where the door will go. I plan on swinging the door out. The photo shows my initial go. 10X14, blue at the top is a window (not movable) and the red is where the door can be placed. From outside the room, the bottom works better. I am building the bottom and right walls, the other two are existing Obviously not complete, but the idea is a yard on the bottom and left sides. Plan on putting a desk/computer under the yard. Thoughts/suggestions/opinions? Thanks!

---

Once the layout is complete, will entry into the room be a duck under or a lift bridge? If it's a lift bridge, then the bottom is the choice. You will want the straightest section as possible. If it's a duck under at the corner, you will have a longer distance to travel under the layout. I like the layout and wish I had a room like this to work with. I would start the yard with one turnout at the top and the rest of the ladder after the curve. That is if you loop elevation allows it. Are you using AnyRail software to design it?

Can your crossover be an over/under situation? That way you're not restricted to the length of your train.

PrototypeMike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once the layout is complete, will entry into the
> room be a duck under or a lift bridge? If it's a
> lift bridge, then the bottom is the choice. You
> will want the straightest section as possible. If
> it's a duck under at the corner, you will have a
> longer distance to travel under the layout. I like
> the layout and wish I had a room like this to work
> with. I would start the yard with one turnout at
> the top and the rest of the ladder after the
> curve. That is if you loop elevation allows it.
> Are you using AnyRail software to design it?

I have not decided which. I dont mind a duck under, but I am "young". My fear with the lift bridge is keeping it working. I can see having issues with derailing. Of course the plan will change by the minute until I get to that point. I just know if I sit here and plan until it is perfect, nothing will ever get built. Right now I am just forcing myself to do something. As soon as I can figure out the best place for the door I am rolling pretty good. Now I just need to figure out how far from the corner to start the door and still keep as much of the bottom straight section. Heck, if someone has a better overall layout idea I am all ears. Even the grade up and over is optional, originally I just had a loop out and back, no crossing each other. This is Nebraska so not like there is too many trains crossing over each other.

I am using Anyrail at the moment. I have tried several, this is the only one I understood.

When I came up with the space, I thought this was going to be awesome as it is by far the biggest area I have ever had the opportunity to use for a layout. It did not take long to figure out "I need more space", even before starting. I keep toying with the idea of n scale. I like the scale and options of HO, just need more room. I guess I could expand and take my stall of the garage.

boejoe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can your crossover be an over/under situation?
> That way you're not restricted to the length of
> your train.

Yes it is over each other the way it sits. Originally I had just looping out and back like this. Probably a big hill or background between. I probably like this better anyhow, put a siding in and not mess with grades.

---

The yard looks to be in a good place, agree that there needs to be another through track but it doesn't need to be all the tracks.

I would try to fit in a siding somewhere, the upper right area could be the place. To make the level crossing more interesting the siding could extend over the crossing and then the turnout before going into the curve. Although it's lost space in the siding, it would make the crossing appear to be part of a larger purpose. Seems more interesting than the option of the curve bump-out. Don't forget some places for industries.

At around 12:30ish of the video, Ken Patterson builds a really cool lift out section that might be better than a duck under.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xda9jAdtbg&list=PLBfdQkX57PXzvHde6X95ItThXjvpwiv_B&index=3

Track switches (yard ladders) take up a lot of real estate on a layout. Maybe you would want the yard across the bottom, where it could be a bit longer than at the side. Use curved switches at the left corner to lead into it to save a little room. And then put the door at the right-hand end.

Jim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/17 14:32 by Jimmies.

What if you went over and under with a loop and then you could have hidden staging under the higher level? In other words, the left side of the layout in your illustration would be above the staging and then you would have a slight downgrade to get to the other end to enter the loop to return up. Then you could keep some trains in staging for interchange. Just an idea.

I have a 12x16 layout almost exactly the same as your design and the one thing I've enjoyed is the larger radii. As for making a choice between a duck under or a lift up, I opted for the duck under. Although I'm 71 I use a desk chair to roll under the opening as do my quests. Since there is only enough room for two of us it isn't a problem. I tried a lift up at first but had constant alignment problems.

Remember if you have a curved yard lead you'll be trying to couple cars in curves and that may be a hassle. Also depending on the tracking quality of your cars and quality of your track work you may be prone to derailments if shoving long cuts.

Posted from Android

My personal observation from seeing exhibition layouts with curves on joins, they caused a lot of derailments. I say put your lift out on straight sections.

Rick

In your first post you said; "I plan on modeling the midwest, BN coal country in the mid 90s."

Are you talking about something like the line in Illinois going to Paducah KY? Any specific locations are you wanting to model or are you basically proto freelancing?

I would guess that you would have other traffic besides coal. I think you could go up to 30" minimum radius. I think you have room.

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you could go up to 30" minimum radius. I think you have room.

I was going to ask the OP what the minimum radius was in the plan; it looks like around 24 inches if those are 12" squares in the grid. It's a limited space but 30 inch radius may be attainable and a good goal to allow a wide variety of rolling stock to operate gracefully.

Cheers, Jim Fitch

Interesting point about curve radius, 30 inch seems like a really good goal but I'm seeing people get by with tighter with 24 being in the danger zone. In balance, the design does not allow long trains and coal cars are pretty robust in short lengths.

The design with the level crossing has the limitation that the whole train needs to inside the loop to be able to pass itself at the crossing. That loop needs to be the largest radius possible to define the train length. In that balance the shorter trains can handle the tighter curves. But that's what makes the design phase so interesting.

Allowing for larger trains would require the crossing to be vertically separated, perhaps at a latter stage for example.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/17 10:26 by TCnR.

TCnR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting point about curve radius, 30 inch
> seems like a really good goal but I'm seeing
> people get by with tighter with 24 being in the
> danger zone. In balance, the design does not allow
> long trains and coal cars are pretty robust in
> short lengths.

Yes, if 30-inch isn't possible, anything to push it up from 24 would improve operation reliablity and appearance. Even 26, or if possible 28 inch curves. Just a couple inches larger radius makes a big difference at low radius ranges.

Cheers, Jim Fitch

I plan on loosely modeling SE Nebraska where I grew up, mainly the St Joe line between Lincoln and KC. No spot in particular, just looking for that "feel". Single main with sidings. The yard will be more for holding trains than actually switching. I wanted to at hidden yard, just not sure I have enough room to get down a level.

After going back and forth a lot, I am going to break my first rule and put the door in the center of the right side. That will open up the entire bottom and should fit between corners. Right now this is made with 22" corners (Atlas code 83). I do not anticipate running any long cars as they were very uncommon (that I remember). No passenger. Just unit coal, grain, and mixed freight.

I purchased anyrail just now so I can continue working on it. I was trying to stay below the limit but cant. I will get some more details in and throw out another round of suggestions later. Thanks all for the feedback so far! I might as well learn from your mistakes. :)

Even if you can't get a helix in that space for hidden yard below, maybe a no-lix or a ramp down will work. If trains are short, you could probably manage a 3% grade ramp to hidden yard.

Cheers, Jim

Define "short". :) Is a 2 engine/20 car train short? How long would that length of train (coal cars) be?

Well, my last layout I just tore down in July was in a 10x18' room and around the walls. A 20 foot train pretty well filled things up and I did run some up to 25 cars. It was a nolix design and ran from a yard on the upper level and down a 2.9% grade into an 11 track staging yard and then back up 2.9% grade to the upper level again. Two six-axle SD45's could pull a 20 car train up the 2.9% grade.

How long will your trains be? If they don't exceed around 20 cars, you should be able to manage a 3% ramp - but I'd guess 4-axle diesels would slip if pulling a 20 car train up that grade. I had a garage layout with 2.5% grade and 2 Atlas GP7's could barely pull a 20 car train up that grade.

In your space, I'd think 20 car trains will be pretty long, but mine are 50, 60 and 89' cars, whereas you will be not running long cars.

Attached are some under construction photo's so you can see the basic configuration.

Cheers, Jim Fitch



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/17 14:14 by SPDRGWfan.

---

---

---