Model Railroading > Onboard power next in HO?

So, with all the discussions on DCC here I've been wondering: how long until HO Scale goes to wireless onboard control and power? The large scales already have both right? So size would be the main obstacle for HO? It sure seems like the next logical step. Wireless throttles are already common and it seems like the iPhone app type control is on the way.
If you had onboard rechargeable battery pack you could have a "charge track" or powered sections of the layout that would charge the battery. Thoughts?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/18 10:41 by Matt_Gidley.

You can do it now. Go to s-cab.com . He has installs in a couple of HO locomotives that he demos in his blog. NCE has a decoder that has a radio receiver on it and the batteries are not that big. Think of the one in your cell phone. Dirty track......noooo problem, gaps in rails around frogs, a thing of the past.. Welcome to dead rails.
John

I had some thoughts and discussion on this nearly two years ago;

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,3996140,3996519#msg-3996519

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

This discussion has come up alot on the. Boards. General concensus is that. Until better battery life comes along., it has a limited use. Mostly on switching layouts.

4thDistrict Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HB90MACH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This discussion has come up alot on the. Boards.
>
> > General concensus is that. Until better battery
> > life comes along., it has a limited use.
> Mostly
> > on switching layouts.
>
> Exactly! It might be fine as a novelty, or for
> limited duration use, but to operate heavy trains
> for several hours at a time, as many of us do in
> our op sessions, battery power is non starter. I
> have zero interest in tethering a boxcar to my
> consists so I can hook up larger batteries. I
> don't have problems with my DCC system, so have
> zero motivation to move into something that is
> still unproven.

Why can't the track power charge the batteries?

sphauler

I bought two Marklin "My World" train sets for my three year old twins. Basically it is on board battery operated, using a seperate IR remote controller. While not "scale", it runs on HO track. The track that came with the set was 100% plastic, but I set up some KATO unitrack so they can grow into something else later. The remote also operates the headlights, and basic sounds.

One of the sets resembles an F7 type locomotive. It uses 4 AA batteries that are hidden in a passenger car that permanently attached/part of the loco.

The 2nd actually uses a built in battery that recharges using a USB. It resembles a subway type train, but is much smaller.

Anyways, they run for awhile before needing a battery change/charge. A good month or two, with my kids playing with them a few times a day.

The downside is that they don't really have allot of torque/ pulling power. They will drive the "train sets" that came together, but not much else.

Anyways, it can be done. I just think that companies don't want to take the risk.

Using current battery technology, you can now more accurately model GE U-boats....real flames coming out of the stack :)

Bob



4thDistrict Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HB90MACH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This discussion has come up alot on the. Boards.
>
> > General concensus is that. Until better battery
> > life comes along., it has a limited use.
> Mostly
> > on switching layouts.
>
> Exactly! It might be fine as a novelty, or for
> limited duration use, but to operate heavy trains
> for several hours at a time, as many of us do in
> our op sessions, battery power is non starter. I
> have zero interest in tethering a boxcar to my
> consists so I can hook up larger batteries. I
> don't have problems with my DCC system, so have
> zero motivation to move into something that is
> still unproven.

4thDistrict Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sphauler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Why can't the track power charge the batteries?
>
> >
> > sphauler
>
> If there is track power, why would we need the
> batteries?

To travel over unpowered frogs more reliably, dead electrical sections in track, sections of overly dirty track, etc. The idea would be to drive the motor and charge the battery from the track power, but battery power would carry the motor over the aforementioned areas as well as probably power headlights, ditchlights, etc to prevent the lights from flickering. Doesn't hold any interest for me personally, but for some people it might.

Jim

"Keep Alive" or "Current Keeper" capacitors solve the unpowered frog or iffy stack sections
issue. Track power with these capacitors is a better option than battery in HO scale, at least
in the year 2018.

Your switcher might look suspicious dragging that same ol' boxcar around....

Although I really like the dead-rail concept.

TJY

As a modeler of the northeast in the 1970s Bad Old Days, I would love to be able to model truly god awful track, without having to worry about electrical contact.

march_hare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a modeler of the northeast in the 1970s Bad Old
> Days, I would love to be able to model truly god
> awful track, without having to worry about
> electrical contact.



For sure. Moving past the tyranny of using the rails to deliver power (which is highly unprototypical) opens tremendous modeling opportunities.

My large scale dead-rail friends love it.

Model Railroader had a story decades ago about a guy showing up at a Sunday breakfast at an NMRA convention. He set an HO SP Black Widow F-unit on the tablecloth and away it went!
The hungover breakfasters were impressed after they got over their initial shock.
Never heard anything more about it.
Battery technology is a big deal these days and who knows what may come out of it?

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

4thDistrict Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jimmies Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 4thDistrict Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > sphauler Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > >
> > > > Why can't the track power charge the
> > batteries?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > sphauler
> > >
> > > If there is track power, why would we need
> the
> > > batteries?
> >
> > To travel over unpowered frogs more reliably,
> dead
> > electrical sections in track, sections of
> overly
> > dirty track, etc. The idea would be to drive
> the
> > motor and charge the battery from the track
> power,
> > but battery power would carry the motor over
> the
> > aforementioned areas as well as probably power
> > headlights, ditchlights, etc to prevent the
> lights
> > from flickering. Doesn't hold any interest for
> me
> > personally, but for some people it might.
> >
> > Jim
>
> Or, instead of installing batteries, maintain the
> track properly. Dead electrical sections and
> frogs, flickering lights, and overly dirty track
> can be cured with even basic effort. Installing
> batteries and keeping the batteries charged would
> be more trouble than keeping the track properly
> maintained. As for momentary loss of power over
> dead frogs, keep alive circuits would take care of
> those problems, They are easy to install, and they
> have been proven to work.
>
> I am not against battery power if some prefer it,
> but maintaining good track "hygiene" should be at
> the top of the list no matter what power system a
> person favors.

Time and money would be saved if batteries could be used, that should be obvious. Especially if you run a fairly large layout the initial wiring takes time and effort, then maintaining trackage takes time and effort. That time/money could be better spent on detailing and actual models/scenery etc. Do you want the hobby to grow and appeal to younger generations - then things have to evolve and move with the times?!

One fellow knows about those batteries and how they can act I see no one else commented on them. Just like those computer batteries that catch on fire those are the same and can do it too. RC airplanes have been dealing with the problem for years that's why most store them in a box which will contain the fire when not in use. Some time back these fellows were attending a meet staying in a motel room when theres went up in flames, friend almost burned his garage down when his went up. Go on YouTube and watch them burn. Then tell me how you would like to have the same happen in your basement.

In Dayton Ohio there are two prototype trolleybuses that charge up while under the trolleybus wires. They run on battery power off wire. This set-up could be used on a model railway, many tracks could be dead but the locomotive service tracks and important other sections of track like yard leads could be powered to charge locomotives while switching or setting still. As the electronics and computer programs have improved though realistic track circuiting and train detection and signalling has became quite realistic on layouts as it is so being able to realistically shunt track circuits is not as important and would be really complicated. The keep alive stuff solves that problem so I too am in the group of battery operation would solve some issues but likely cause others.

They are using rechargeable batteries on trolleybuses full of people. They use rechargeable batteries in Hybrid cars. There are rechargeable batteries everywhere. Just some are better and more stable than others.

Jim

icancmp193 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your switcher might look suspicious dragging that
> same ol' boxcar around....
>

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1292766,1292766#msg-1292766

TAW