Model Railroading > The future of name trains...

Here's my take on doing a complete passenger train. I've put this in a separate thread as I don't think it's right for one manufacturer to hijack another manufacturer's thread.

A complete passenger train is a huge, huge task. We might try one in N scale at some point, but the HO scale Canadian - with its seven different passenger cars (six different underbodies!) and two different locomotives - almost sunk us. Rapido was too small a company to take that project on, and while it was profitable on paper it wasn't in terms of cash flow. The project sucked up all of our production capability and we only paid off the debt caused by it in December, a full five years after we delivered the train.

I think our approach with the New Haven stainless steel equipment - one car a year or so - is much more practical from a production and cash flow point of view, especially given the level of detail in Rapido's cars. A complete train like the North Coast Limited requires a ton of different underbody and interior configurations. The tooling expense would be insane. We'd love to make the NCL, but I fear we would be in the same boat as The Canadian. It would be profitable in and of itself, but because we couldn't deliver anything else for six months, we would run very low in cash.

-Jason

Thanks for sharing from your point of view, as far as the NH is concerned with all that you've done (coaches, Parlors) maybe check with rapidobill and see if a observation car would be appropriate.

Ed Stewart
Jacksonville, FL

Great point of view, especially from a manufacturer who is very open and has a great product! I have always hoped for a run of business cars, especially theater cars as almost every railroad in the modern era has had a few over time and not an always easy kitbash. Maybe something to ponder!

Good information. I think one thought is, a similar train with 1 or 2 new cars could be offered at different releases. So once you have a base, can it be simple to expand. I know not everyone will be happy with every release.

Some items, like Surfliners or CA Cali cars, would be easier to produce, but a very limited market.

Mike ONeill
Parker, CO

Thanks for explaining this, a perspective that a lot of modelers may not realize. I would like to see more N Scale stuff in general from Rapido, doesn't have to be a complete train. Would like to see you guys make Amtrak F40s in N scale w/DCC & Sound.

Unless you run the train upside down, who really cares about the undeframe? A good looking accurate train is a beautiful thing, if some putz has to look at the underframe and make some snide comment, tell him to take an "FFTTM". That has to do with getting to the moon.

Posted from Android

Why name trains, why not name cars? What about interest in some of the one-off PV cars that have (well had) become common place on the back ends of countless Amtrak trains across the country over the past 15-20 years?

I’d love to have a model of the Bella Vista or Tioga Pass or Patron Tequila Express to take along with my Amtrak equipment.

Mr. MRL

Trainboss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unless you run the train upside down, who really
> cares about the undeframe? A good looking accurate
> train is a beautiful thing, if some putz has to
> look at the underframe and make some snide
> comment, tell him to take an "FFTTM". That has to
> do with getting to the moon.
>
> Posted from Android

At pushing a $100.00 a car, the damn thing better do everything but talk to me. The devil is in the details.

As somebody who buys a car here and a car there to create believable Amtrak consists of the 1970s, I totally agree with the one car at a time approach.

And besides, my cash flow won't allow purchasing the whole train at once anyway.

Keep up the good work, I'll be buying irregularly, but loyally.

And yeah, get that low nose RS18 out, couldja?

Perhaps what Jason may be alluding to as to the car underside is what can be seen from the side as to tanks, piping, air conditioning equipment, etc.

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/18 16:20 by wabash2800.

Jason,
Like I told the fine young man at Trainfest last year, since you are doing the F40PH and its cousin the Cabbage Loco. How about a run of Horizon cars? Different paint schemes and alot more detailed than the 80s Walthers.

Posted from Android

I like this idea!

MrMRL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why name trains, why not name cars? What about
> interest in some of the one-off PV cars that have
> (well had) become common place on the back ends of
> countless Amtrak trains across the country over
> the past 15-20 years?
>
> I’d love to have a model of the Bella Vista or
> Tioga Pass or Patron Tequila Express to take along
> with my Amtrak equipment.
>
> Mr. MRL

Ryan Wilkerson
Fair Oaks, CA

Jason, how about a Reading "Crusader"?
It would also make a dandy little CN train.
CJV in Illinois

So many passenger cars, so little time.....and money.

Thanks, Jason, for offering your perspective.

Your approach of producing one New Haven car a year is logical and, hopefully, appreciated by New Haven modelers.

Would you ever consider producing a shorter prototype passenger train such as CP's Atlantic or a Great Northern Badger/Gopher?

Of course, your RDCs are the ultimate shorty passenger trains for modelers with limited space.

Well, that certainly is a very honest revelation! As hobbyists, we tend to want it all, and right now! When BLI released the California Zephyr in HO, with a multitude of cars, I grabbed an 11 car set. Could I have got 1 or 2 ayear for 5 or 6 years? Yes, but...I might have been grumbling! Bottom line- Manufacturers, do what you must to stay in business, and sharing information with your customers goes a long way! Thank you!

Oh, what the heck-  Go For It !!
SR

I think it would make sense to tell us you are planning a "once a year" set of releases to build a train then we can plan/budget.

That said I suggest there are trains and trains. Whilst the SP peninsular service wasn't (isn't) a named train the Harriman coaches were pulled by a range of steam locomotives and then Trainmasters so one set of coaches could have multiple uses. I'm NOT specifically suggesting the peninsular service just using it as an example of a different way of thinking about what I might call "sets" rather than named trains.

I will now go on to talk about the current Caltrain service and ask if anyone has mooted modelling the soon to be built double deck EMUs?!

Jason,

Many thanks for broaching the subject of name trains. The Canadian is indeed beautiful and aside from "cash flow" it is a priceless treasure to many. Equally impressive is Rapido's continuous quality improvement in the passenger products. Every run seems to get better and better. The biggest thanks however are your willingness to bring it out in public for discussion and solicit ideas - that's a wonderful customer building move!

Perhaps another two avenues to try are embracing doing several name trains over a several year period in conjunction that are spaced out so that each individual car can not only be done in the original railroad scheme, but later schemes as well. Don't be misled by the competition at W*lthers, they are missing countless opportunities for profitability with the passenger production decisions. The last time they truly did it right was when they did the GN Empire Builder, they did the original, big sky blue, Burlington Northern, and Amtrak. Eventually they did the later Amtrak dome versions in Phase III. The great thing was instead of just one car for a train, some bought six or more! You get the idea.

Don't do 3 huge name trains. Straddle them out such as an 8, 6, and a 5 car one. Stay away from large behemoth name trains at first. Whlle I would jump at a SP Sunset Limited, I would be estatic with a 60s version of SP San Joaquin after things had been smoothsided. That's a neat looking train and you would just be out the passenger production. Other manufacturers have done the locomotives.

The other avenue is to fill the gap that was left and blow it away! What? Make the Auto Train auto carriers that no ones ever done that were CN prototypes, there were several types. Perhaps even make the modern version. Do a Regal Series Santa Fe sleeper in the version that W*lthers didn't do that would be a boom for Santa Fe modelers, Auto Train modelers, Amtrak Phase I etc.

As they will not touch passenger trains outside of four to five main roads, it's a grand opportunity to beat them to the punch. But how? One of the selling points of passenger trains is the signature cars. All Rapido has to do is produce the signature cars i.e the SAL Sun Lounges, SP Quarter Domes, SP Articulated Coaches, NP Observations and Dome Sleepers, CB&Q domes, dome obs, IC Observations, steam heater cars etc.

For instance with the NP North Coast Limited there are several cars in that train that made it to Amtrak with several different schemes along the way. The Budd Diner comes to mind i.e. NP NCL, BN Hockey Puck, Amtrak Phase I, II, III, IV, and V etc.

Last, but not least if you want a tremendous bang for your buck for the North American market go after doing road specific E units such as the E6, 7, and 8. The dreadful wait for more roadnames has taken forever with the two prominent manufacturers and with your company skillset could easily up that. Oh, and the F40PH. Produce the Amtrak F40PHs Phase II carbody versions! They were nationwide. Once again these locomotives would complement the rolling stock that's out there and building your profit.

Ok, I'm done, back to the basement to run some trains!