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Model Railroading > China and tariffs question.


Date: 05/10/19 15:33
China and tariffs question.
Author: Hartington

At the risk of starting a political debate (that's not what I want to do).

Does anyone known whether the tariffs announced today on Chinese imports will have any effect on prices we pay? One of the categories is apparently "toys" and while I hate to admit it my understanding is that for import purposes that's what our trains are.



Date: 05/10/19 16:23
Re: China and tariffs question.
Author: JLW2K

Tariff code 9503.00 which covers the industry is not on any USTR lists as of today, so I think model trains are safe.  In the event the code is added, manufacturers could formally submit an exclusion request which would exempt that code from the tariffs.  This request would most likely get approved because it's designed for niche industries that could face extreme hardship if the code was applied.

James Wright
Omaha, NE



Date: 05/10/19 18:48
Re: China and tariffs question.
Author: Ray_Murphy

JLW2K Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...In the event the code is
> added, manufacturers could formally submit an
> exclusion request which would exempt that code
> from the tariffs.  This request would most likely
> get approved because it's designed for niche
> industries that could face extreme hardship if the
> code was applied.

I don't think this is an accurate assumption any longer.

Ray 



Date: 05/10/19 19:37
Re: China and tariffs question.
Author: JLW2K

Ray_Murphy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JLW2K Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ...In the event the code is
> > added, manufacturers could formally submit an
> > exclusion request which would exempt that code
> > from the tariffs.  This request would most
> likely
> > get approved because it's designed for niche
> > industries that could face extreme hardship if
> the
> > code was applied.
>
> I don't think this is an accurate assumption any
> longer.
>
> Ray 

Why not?  There's thousands of approved exclusion requests.  There is a backlog however, so it may be awhile to get approval.



Date: 05/10/19 20:28
Re: China and tariffs question.
Author: PHall

Get your stuff from Rapido? They're Canadian and not affected.



Date: 05/10/19 20:53
Re: China and tariffs question.
Author: thehighwayman

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get your stuff from Rapido? They're Canadian and
> not affected.

Normally, I would have posted something like this .... but not now!
Canada is having serious trade issues with China these days too -- because we did the US a favour.

 

Will MacKenzie
Dundas, ON



Date: 05/10/19 21:07
Re: China and tariffs question.
Author: bnsfmodeler

Here are the three ways it can go
1 we pay what I would like to say a tax and pay more for goods and the us treasury gets the money YEA!

2 the vender in china takes the hit and no price increase for you YEA!

3 The vender moves the product to a different country and raises the price and that country ships it to the USA YEA!

My two cents YEA!

A post buy the Washington post There could be bad news ahead for tomato lovers .On Tuesday, it was announced that the United States would begin imposing a 17.5 percent tariff on imported Mexican tomatoes, which could leave to increased prices — and shortages.This new tariff marks the end of the Tomato Suspension Agreement, which existed between Mexico and the United States for 22 years, before the T___p administration put an end to it, according to the washington post
GO T___P FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like Pizza do you



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/19 21:09 by bnsfmodeler.



Date: 05/10/19 23:12
Re: China and tariffs question.
Author: Ivar

Let’s make model railroading great again……scratch building!

Posted from iPhone



Date: 05/10/19 23:12
Re: China and tariffs question.
Author: JDLX

Since my first answer to another post apparently got deleted, here's what I know and have heard on various shows today. 

The increase effective this morning raised tariffs on about $200 billion in goods imported from China from 10% to 25%.  The U.S. Government originally imposed the 10% last year and taylored these tariffs to minimize direct impacts on consumers, as with a few exceptions such as washing machines the increased prices are masked in either supply chains or otherwise obscured in the price of a final product.  That being said, the administration also at least started laying the groundwork today to levy a 25% tariff on another $325 billion of goods imported from China, which represents pretty much everything else this country imports from there and would presumeably include model railroad and other hobby products.  We are a ways off from those taking effect, if they ever do- one analysis I heard today is that nobody really expects the additional tariffs to happen, as both sides have too much to lose.  But then again nobodthought five days ago the tariff increase this morning would happen either, so prepared to be surprised.  

I know the President was out yesterday or today saying that China is paying the tariffs, which is not correct.  Tariffs are paid by the importing company at the port of entry, and unless the importer can get the vendor in China to reduce their prices the importer will be forced to raise prices.  Several economists have studied the 10% tariffs at length and have determined basically the U.S. consumer has paid the entire cost of those tariffs in one way or another.  

At this point, if/when the tariffs go into effect I strongly suspect that we will see some combination of substantial price hikes on hobby supplies and equipment followed by the industry moving their production south and/or east from China, which is what a whole lot of manufacturers in other industries are in the process of doing right now.  It will be interesting to see which way this goes.  

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV   



Date: 05/11/19 06:15
Re: China and tariffs question.
Author: WrongWayMurphy

Tariffs are used to protect one’s own businesses from being undercut by others, and are paid by the importer.  
In theory and in actuality, tariffs raise cost and thus reduce demand for a product so the importer imports less of the product, hurting the supplier.  What usually happens is the importer finds a new source with no little tarrif to keep up with demand, or
finds a supplier domestically.

NAFTA was formed to keep tariffs at a minimum, though they still existed.  We lost manufacturing jobs
but kept price increases in check, and quality didn’t suffer because the American companies moved manufacturing
across the Rio Grande but kept control of the processes.  

Previous administrations both R and D have just just rolled over and taken it when trade issues became a problem.  Anyone remember when China dumped steel at extremely cheap prices and decimated the US steel industry?  Tariffs were eventually imposed on foreign steel and our steel industry has somewhat rebounded.  The current admin. has decided to fight back,
a noble cause but tough medicine to take.

No one know how this will play out, but our models are a blip on the world trade stage and will probably be exempt for a while longer.  My guess is nervous importers will be looking for alternatives to China.  I know of one manufacture, not models, that
already are planning to move their plant to Vietnam.

Would like to hear from Jason about this.



 


 



Date: 05/11/19 12:01
Re: China and tariffs question.
Author: CA_Sou_MA_Agent

Hartington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At the risk of starting a political debate . . . 


Hmmmm     let's see if I can make that happen.  I bet I can do it and not even mention Trump.  

This is a hot-button issue and this thread has little or nothing to do with trains, except for a bunch of anxiety and hand-wringing over whether the price of model trains might increase. 

Do the multi-story factories where they make these scale model trains in China have nets to catch the employees when they try to commit suicide because the working conditions are so horrid?  That's the case at the factories where they make the smart phones. 

Heaven forbid if we might have to pay $50 dollars more for an HO scale Big Boy.  Maybe one day, thanks to tariffs, such a model can be manufactured in a country where the working conditions are a little more humane.    

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/07/suicide-chinese-iphone-factory-reignites-concern-working-conditions/


 



Date: 05/11/19 14:11
Re: China and tariffs question.
Author: RuleG

WrongWayMurphy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
.  Anyone remember when China
> dumped steel at extremely cheap prices and
> decimated the US steel industry?

I don't remember that at all.  When the steel industry in Youngstown and the Pittsburgh region in sharply declined in the late 1970s and 1980s, most imported steel was coming from Europe and Japan.  However, it was also during this period that smaller mills like those operated by Nucor began to increase.  There were many many reasons for decline of the legacy steel industry in the 1970s and 1980s having nothing to do with imports.



Date: 05/11/19 15:08
Re: China and tariffs question.
Author: PHall

RuleG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WrongWayMurphy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> .  Anyone remember when China
> > dumped steel at extremely cheap prices and
> > decimated the US steel industry?
>
> I don't remember that at all.  When the steel
> industry in Youngstown and the Pittsburgh region
> in sharply declined in the late 1970s and 1980s,
> most imported steel was coming from Europe and
> Japan.  However, it was also during this period
> that smaller mills like those operated by Nucor
> began to increase.  There were many many reasons
> for decline of the legacy steel industry in the
> 1970s and 1980s having nothing to do with imports.

Failure to update and upgrade the plants had something to do with it.
The European and Jananese plants were newer because we had bombed them into rubble during WWII.



Date: 05/11/19 18:58
Re: China and tariffs question.
Author: NYSWSD70M

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RuleG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WrongWayMurphy Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > .  Anyone remember when China
> > > dumped steel at extremely cheap prices and
> > > decimated the US steel industry?
> >
> > I don't remember that at all.  When the steel
> > industry in Youngstown and the Pittsburgh
> region
> > in sharply declined in the late 1970s and
> 1980s,
> > most imported steel was coming from Europe and
> > Japan.  However, it was also during this
> period
> > that smaller mills like those operated by Nucor
> > began to increase.  There were many many
> reasons
> > for decline of the legacy steel industry in the
> > 1970s and 1980s having nothing to do with
> imports.
>
> Failure to update and upgrade the plants had
> something to do with it.
> The European and Jananese plants were newer
> because we had bombed them into rubble during
> WWII.

Yes and built with (US) Marshall Plan money. Then the US allowed them to import steel into the US at low tariff rates to pump additional money into these econmies.

What was appropriate in 1947 is no longer valid today. We do not need to boost the Chinese to the determent of ourselves. They are not our friend. They sell to us to make money and build an economy of their own.

Posted from Android



Date: 05/12/19 08:22
Re: China and tariffs question.
Author: mundo

PHall,we agree on another post.

US money following WWII, is what built the modern passenger rail system elsewhere.

Ed



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