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Model Railroading > HO Intermountain GP16s?


Date: 06/06/19 08:35
HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: mtzctrain

I looked on intermountain's website and the GP16s now say "Confirmed for Production". Has anyone heard a release time for these?
I thought they were close to delivery months ago, but I'm assuming that factory closure in China affected the delivery dates on these... Just wondering if anyone has some insight.
   -Caleb



Date: 06/06/19 08:39
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: SPDRGWfan

Individually no.  But I have emailed Intermountain regarding certain projects I am interested in and have gotten some feedback, even if rough estimates.  If you email them, you may get some useful information.



Date: 06/06/19 09:22
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: toledopatch

Their web site explains what "Confirmed for Production" and other status codes mean. IIRC, this statement means factory production time is scheduled but manufacturing has not yet started. They used to post estimated months for products' release but those never proved accurate.



Date: 06/06/19 18:37
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: CSX602

I recall emailing two friends the day that IM officially announced the GP16s...   Both were joyful and replied they would get several.  That was January 2013.
Sadly one is gone and the other now in assisted living and likely doesn't recall what a GP16 was...

They were shown "In Production" about June 2018, just before IM changed their delivery estimates verbage, and there was a thread in July last year where people were saying they would be on the water soon and here by August-September (2018).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/19 18:55 by CSX602.



Date: 06/07/19 04:36
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: brfriedm

Curt, You just make the same complaints over and over. do u keep a complaints database?

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,4590947,4591154#msg-4591154

Bruce

CSX602 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I recall emailing two friends the day that IM
> officially announced the GP16s...   Both were
> joyful and replied they would get several.  That
> was January 2013.
> Sadly one is gone and the other now in assisted
> living and likely doesn't recall what a GP16
> was...
>
> They were shown "In Production" about June 2018,
> just before IM changed their delivery estimates
> verbage, and there was a thread in July last year
> where people were saying they would be on the
> water soon and here by August-September (2018).



Date: 06/07/19 06:48
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: CSX602

Bruce, I'm just honest and consistent...  It is just sad to think of all those who didn't get to enjoy GP16 models due to the 6+ years of delays.
BTW Note that I didn't point you or anybody else out by name as those who made the comments last year (but you provided the link).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/19 06:56 by CSX602.



Date: 06/09/19 18:12
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: wko

The tooling was done at the IMRC facility in Longmont, CO and then all the plastic was run there as well.  It was then shipped to AFFA in China for painting, assembly, etc. years ago.  Given AFFA shut down with no notice after struggling with local and national issues (not tariff threats, local Communist Nation stuff that I won't get into) for at least 18 months folks in the hobby should be able to figure out that the companies that used AFFA for production dealt with some frustrating and serious issues for many, many months.  In this case, IMRC had received pre-production samples, approved them, and were told the run was just about complete a few months before shutdown.  Inquiries received the same response, "they are just about done, should be shipping soon."  Next thing you know the factory closes with no notice.  Note the timing per CSX602's thread, the factory closed in late July of 2018, at the time IMRC was told the GP16's would be shipping.  Didn't happen, leaves IMRC with a bunch of plastic over in China at a factory now closed.  Takes time to find other suppliers, get the plastic run and shipped to them as well as tooling the drive, etc. Also note the expense IMRC has incurred with no product to show for it.  NOBODY wants these models produced and shipped as badly as IMRC does, nobody.  When you don't control the factory, however, you are subject to the information you are receiving.  As I was one of those laid off at the time of the factory closure, I cannot speak to the present status but can assure you they should have shipped a long time ago as per information given by AFFA.
My greatest frustration working in the model railroad industry was the reaction of modelers who didn't seem to understand that the manufacturers have zero desire to delay or cancel a project.  Their livelihood depends on a steady stream of products and when that stream is disrupted, sometimes as a result of their mistakes, sometimes a result of the factory making a mistake, it can have a serious impact on cash flow.  The closure of AFFA was a major event in the model railroad industry and that seems to have gone unrecognized in most model forums.  It is still severly impacting the industry almost a year later.  As I mentioned earlier, nobody wants to see products shipped as badly as the manufacturer selling them, nobody.
Kirk    



Date: 06/10/19 07:58
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: toledopatch

wko Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The tooling was done at the IMRC facility in Longmont, CO and then all the plastic was run
> there as well.  It was then shipped to AFFA in China for painting, assembly, etc. years ago. 
> Given AFFA shut down with no notice after struggling with local and national issues (not
> tariff threats, local Communist Nation stuff that I won't get into) for at least 18 months folks in
> the hobby should be able to figure out that the companies that used AFFA for production dealt with
> some frustrating and serious issues for many, many months.  In this case, IMRC had received
> pre-production samples, approved them, and were told the run was just about complete a few months
> before shutdown.  Inquiries received the same response, "they are just about done, should be
> shipping soon."  Next thing you know the factory closes with no notice.  Note the timing per
> CSX602's thread, the factory closed in late July of 2018, at the time IMRC was told the GP16's
> would be shipping.  Didn't happen, leaves IMRC with a bunch of plastic over in China at a factory
> now closed.  Takes time to find other suppliers, get the plastic run and shipped to them as well as
> tooling the drive, etc. Also note the expense IMRC has incurred with no product to show for it. 
> NOBODY wants these models produced and shipped as badly as IMRC does, nobody.  When you don't
> control the factory, however, you are subject to the information you are receiving.  As I was one
> of those laid off at the time of the factory closure, I cannot speak to the present status but
> can assure you they should have shipped a long time ago as per information given by AFFA.
> My greatest frustration working in the model railroad industry was the reaction of modelers who
> didn't seem to understand that the manufacturers have zero desire to delay or cancel a project. 
> Their livelihood depends on a steady stream of products and when that stream is disrupted,
> sometimes as a result of their mistakes, sometimes a result of the factory making a mistake, it can
> have a serious impact on cash flow.  The closure of AFFA was a major event in the model railroad
> industry and that seems to have gone unrecognized in most model forums.  It is still severely
> impacting the industry almost a year later.  As I mentioned earlier, nobody wants to see products
> shipped as badly as the manufacturer selling them, nobody.

And queue up now the deliberately ignorant saying "If you just made these models in the good ol' USA, you wouldn't have this problem." No, you wouldn't, but list price would be $700 instead of $300.



Date: 06/10/19 08:13
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: mtzctrain

Thanks for shedding some light on the situation Kirk. I was assuming that something to that affect happened, but hadn't heard anything.

Hopefully the project is getting back on track.
   -Caleb



Date: 06/10/19 17:57
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: CSX602

wko Wrote:
> My greatest frustration working in the model
> railroad industry was the reaction of modelers who
> didn't seem to understand that the manufacturers
> have zero desire to delay or cancel a project. 

If that is your greatest frustration then you haven't bought much recently...

The reaction you see from many modelers isn't because they think the manufacturers have a desire to delay, but because many of us have encountered past manufacturers who claimed products were a lot closer to production or delivery than they actually were.  There are many reasons products get delayed - from cash flow to tooling issues to manufacturing issues - but the manufacturers know that those who are eagerly awaiting the products don't want to hear about delays (even if totally legit), so there have been some along the way (even back to GHB, Front Range and others in the 1980s) that gave delivery dates they knew weren't going to happen.  When you see a model announced and then have years and years of delays, it erodes the trust in that manufacturers projections going forward.



Date: 06/11/19 03:58
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: SPDRGWfan

A manufacturer can mostly avoid the customer frustation issues if they work like Tangent does.  Announce product when it is available to order now.  Some also announce product when it is on the boat.



Date: 06/11/19 09:27
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: sixaxlecentury

SPDRGWfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A manufacturer can mostly avoid the customer
> frustation issues if they work like Tangent
> does.  Announce product when it is available to
> order now.  Some also announce product when it is
> on the boat.

Why, so everyone can cry when they sell out and they did not get any?   Some of these poor guys are damned if they do, and damned if they dont.  

A perfect example was the Walthers flat cars.   People that did not pre order, did not get them and cried about it becuae the demand was so high, that they are rare now.   



Date: 06/11/19 10:24
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: grahamline

sixaxlecentury Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Why, so everyone can cry when they sell out and
> they did not get any?   Some of these poor guys
> are damned if they do, and damned if they
> dont.  
>
> A perfect example was the Walthers flat cars. 
>  People that did not pre order, did not get them
> and cried about it becuae the demand was so high,
> that they are rare now." 

  Which means that Walthers left money on the table by underestimating their potential market. Walthers tends to blow out 'overstock' six to nine months after their products first appear, which results in casual buyers seeing no reason to put in a reservation at  the release price..



Date: 06/11/19 10:47
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: SPDRGWfan

sixaxlecentury Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why, so everyone can cry when they sell out and
> they did not get any?   Some of these poor guys
> are damned if they do, and damned if they
> dont.  
>
> A perfect example was the Walthers flat cars. 
>  People that did not pre order, did not get them
> and cried about it becuae the demand was so high,
> that they are rare now.

I haven't seen that problem with Tangent or ExactRail.  Usually they have product long enough for you to get what you need if you don't dilly dally a long time.

Walthers to me is a special ase.  I find it more difficult to track products that are coming from them since they changed to the new website. 

Re: Walthers 60' flat cars - I didn't pre-order them, but I did see them in stock at one of my fav vendors for one brief evening - then *poof" rare as hens teeth soon after.  I didn't order them when I had the chance so I snoozed and losed.  I have myself to blame for that; but OTOH, Walthers did grossly underestimated the demand for several versions including the MTTX.  Life goes on.  Maybe if/when they re-run them I'll finally get one or two.  It's their ballgame.


 



Date: 06/11/19 11:12
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: grahamline

SPDRGW, they're waiting for you in someone's closet.  Lots of stuff at swap meets in my area has never been unboxed.  My LHS doesn't ask for money in advance, and discounts special orders 15%.  Says it's "off the UPS truck and out the front door again."  He's happy and I'm happy.



Date: 06/11/19 12:14
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: SPDRGWfan

Too true.  And some things someone else is waiting on is in my closet.  And I'm not complaining - those Walther 60' flat cars weren't even on my radar and are one of the very few things I ended up wanting but didn't get.  

I've found through experience over the past 25 years that patience is usually rewarded and almost always end up finding what I need.  So if I don't get it now, no biggie, maybe later.  I'm happy.

Re: LHS and pre-orders - I don't have an LHS, but have found a shop that I can pre-order from if there are items I don't want to miss out on.



Date: 06/11/19 20:10
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: CSX602

SPDRGWfan Wrote:
> I haven't seen that problem with Tangent or ExactRail. 

Actually overproduction of certain items seems to be the problem with E'Rail...   They have 60' boxcars released in 2012 that they still have full stock of every number of several roadnames (might have helped if the Chessie ones had been on correct body).  And they have some PS4427s, gons and hoppers from before those.   Tangent has even had a few slow sellers recently although a few cars sold out immediately.

PS.  Saw the Walthers 60' MTTX cars and passed.   The real home run was the VTTX cars with the see-through decking and container pedestals.  Those I grabbed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/19 20:13 by CSX602.



Date: 06/12/19 09:30
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: SPDRGWfan

CSX602 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually overproduction of certain items seems to
> be the problem with E'Rail...   They have 60'
> boxcars released in 2012 that they still have full
> stock of every number of several roadnames (might
> have helped if the Chessie ones had been on
> correct body).  And they have some PS4427s, gons
> and hoppers from before those.   Tangent has
> even had a few slow sellers recently although a
> few cars sold out immediately.

Maybe true for the 4427 hoppers but for many of the others, some road names turned out to be slow sellers where hind sight is 20/20.  OTOH, the ER Penn Central auto box cars sold like hot cakes.  So did the Southern waffles, SP wood chip cars and SP mill gons.  If similar numbers were produced for them as the ones that linger, is it over production or just unpopular road names.  I

t's not hard to be critical of sales dogs, but I imagine their response would be, you go put your money on the line and start a company and see if you can do better.  It's very very easy to be on the outside and be a critic.

> PS.  Saw the Walthers 60' MTTX cars and passed. 
>  The real home run was the VTTX cars with the
> see-through decking and container pedestals. 

Home run for those who need them and fit their modeling period.  Passed on the VTTX cars - too late for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/19 12:23 by SPDRGWfan.



Date: 06/13/19 06:02
Re: HO Intermountain GP16s?
Author: toledopatch

CSX602 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PS.  Saw the Walthers 60' MTTX cars and passed. 
>  The real home run was the VTTX cars with the
> see-through decking and container pedestals. 
> Those I grabbed.

I was bummed I missed those until I saw that they didn't run them in yellow with the full TRAILER TRAIN lettering -- just "TTX" and brown Trailer Train if I recall correctly. Maybe next time, Walthers?



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