Model Railroading > Gulliver's Gate Bankruptcy

Gulliver's Gate in NYC, the want-to-be Miniature Wonderland, has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.  The main issue seems to be the inability to pay their rent.  Here is a link to the article in the New York Post.

New York Post Gulliver's Gate Bankruptcy

It saddens me to see this happen, having had the opportunity to work there.  This is what happens when you have a poor business plan.  I'll elaborate if anyone is interested.

Stuart

I visited Gulliver's Gate last year and was a bit disappointed. I realize displays/layouts like this are continuous works-in-progress, but it seemed like they were trying to do too much, too quickly in what seemed like trying to outdo Hamburg's Miniatur Wunderland. To me, it seemed like they were in a space much too large and too expensive for what they were doing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/19 18:49 by railfan400.

Man, there are a lot of red flags in that story.

Model railroading is supposed to be fun, and that doesn’t sound like fun to me.

This is the type of thing that should be attempted by a large club, working out of a very low rent, or preferably a NO RENT location, out in the middle of nowhere.  It should be done for the enjoyment of the members and for the appreciation of guests during "operating" nights.  Anyone trying to do something like this for profit, in a location like Manhattan, needs to have their head examined. 

railfan400 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I visited Gulliver's Gate last year and was a bit
> disappointed. I realize displays/layouts like this
> are continuous works-in-progress, but it seemed
> like they were trying to do too much, too quickly
> in what seemed like trying to outdo Hamburg's
> Miniatur Wunderland. To me, it seemed like they
> were in a space much too large and too expensive
> for what they were doing.

First, my job there was "HO Train Specialist" and yes, I took care of the trains (and also some of the motorized vehicles).

Miniature Wonderland was exactly what inspired them.  Infact, some of the crew from MW visited GG in September 2017.  I got to meet with four of their model train workers.  I showed them around, showing them the differences between the different layouts.  They were shocked when I told them that I was the only person there who worked on the trains.

When I was dismissed on June 18, 2019 there were about 25 operational trains (some running constantly, others alternating with each other).  I visited them in October of last year.  There weren't more than six trains running that day.

Stuart

Streamliner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is the type of thing that should be attempted
> by a large club, working out of a very low rent,
> or preferably a NO RENT location, out in the
> middle of nowhere.  It should be done for the
> enjoyment of the members and for the appreciation
> of guests during "operating" nights.  Anyone
> trying to do something like this for profit, in a
> location like Manhattan, needs to have their head
> examined. 

Part of the problem with Gulliver's Gate was a poor business plan.  First was a name that most people didn't understand.  They couldn't get the heads around the "Gulliver" concept.  Recently I've seen that they started calling it "Gulliver's Miniature World."  Also, their entrance was very poor in design and even people looking for it could walk right by and miss it.

Also, they originally planned on appealing mainly to the tourist trade, not the local population.  So the only outside promotion was sponsoring two double deck tourist buses.  If you weren't on the route that the buses took you'd never now about GG.  In addition, they made a few TV appearances, and a few magazine articles were published, so if you missed them again you wouldn't know about them.  Finally, right after I left they started putting posters on the commuter trains and buses.

Many visitors and potential visitors felt the prices were too high.  Visitors weren't allowed to bring food inside (understandable, as there weren't facitilies for eating), but they also weren't allowed to leave to eat and then return.  On the days when they wee busy they didn't have good crowd control plans.

Finally, the gift shop had some very stupid gift ideas, mainly trying to sell Walthers HO and N trains and trainsets (what tourist is going to buy a trainset, or a $300 Proto locomotive?).

Stuart

I was curious about visiting, but the price and other factors made me spend my time elsewhere.

Cheers,
Harry

I've always marvelled at Miniature Wonderland and what theyve accomplished. What they've built is amazing. However, the even more amazing thing is that they're as popular as they are.  With the changing times and shifting interests of todays kids Ive often wondered if a display layout idea could be made to fly as a business.  And do the cultural differences between countries have much to do with the popularity of MW vs. GG?  I always assumed that you'd have to be a destination rather than a walk-in-traffic sort of place.  However, for that work people have to know you exist.  

The GG idea of outsourcing lands/models and getting built quickly was interesting to me.  It makes sense in the respect that you need to have some reason for people to visit and stay for a while.  And I suppose with the high cost of labor you dont have to employ a bunch of builders (like MW does).  I couldnt see how the location would fly though - too dang expensive.  Once uipon a time there was supposed to be a huge layout/display in the Mall of America in Minneappolis.  It was gone before I could even get there to see it.  Super high rent. 

A good contemporary attraction to model a busines splan on (in some regards) seems to be the City Museum in St Louis.  They are in a HUGE old warehouse building in a low rent area of town - not right downtown.  Out of 15 floors they have built and used about 4 plus the roof.  Plenty of room to grow.  They work on the attraction non-stop and just keep adding more and more. 

Anyway, this is an interesting topic to me as it's something Ive drempt about doing since I was a kid.  The harsh reality now is that I'm older and have a familt to support (and spend time with) and I need my income ;)  But I'm not sure that such an attraction could fly in the US anymore without at least diversifying the theme a little. There are a couple that seem to have made a go of it, but they seem like much more shoestring operations that were built over time than Miniature Wonderland style cutting-edge attractions. 

Unfortunately, the business plan was poor from the start.  I thought about doing a YouTube video there and decided not to waste the money because it wasn't going to be around.  But there's other places of business in our hobby that have similar problems that won't last long in my opinion.
-James

The number one problem with the business plan, was the $5.7 MILLION annual rent.  You have to wonder what they were thinking.

I wonder what their revenue projections were that they thought they could pull off THAT rent?!?

JLW2K Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately, the business plan was poor from the
> start.  I thought about doing a YouTube video
> there and decided not to waste the money because
> it wasn't going to be around.  But there's other
> places of business in our hobby that have similar
> problems that won't last long in my opinion.
> -James

Doubt if they were that far off on proffits due to rent alone.

Who goes to New York to see a big train layout? I didn't even know this existed until this thread. Not far north of me is Entertrainment Junction. Entertrainment Junction did the first and most important thing completely right, they own their building. Then you also have to consider that the parking is free and that there is stuff around them to see and do in West Chester Ohio but nothing extraordinary or unique that they have to compete with unlike in NYC. Entertrainament is also right off I-75 so there is walk-in highway traffic. To me the Guilver's Gate concept has a lot wrong with it. Unfortunately it's failure will make securing loans to do one of these giant layouts in a more economically and logical place difficult. My friend who works at a major German bank said the Miniature Wonderland people came to them first and were rejected and now the bank wishes they had not.

Interesting stuff, I thought model railways could get expensive but this makes me feel like I'm saving money...
Jim