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Model Railroading > Replacing HO Scale Shinohara Switches - With What?


Date: 01/13/22 17:03
Replacing HO Scale Shinohara Switches - With What?
Author: 4thDistrict

I am helping a friend repair an HO scale layout that has a dozen or more poor performing or broken code 83 Shinohara switches, #4s, #6s and #8s with metal throwbars. These will all be replaced as they are not worth trying to repair. What do you recommend as replacements that have the same or similar dimensions and are closest to a drop-in fix? I would rather not have to replace all the track around them to get the replacements to fit if I can avoid it.  

Thank you for your advice and recommendations!

 



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/22 07:58 by 4thDistrict.



Date: 01/13/22 17:27
Re: Replacing HO Scale Shinohara Switches - With What?
Author: TCnR

How old are these turnouts? For example do the have a metal section soldered between the points?

Have the turnouts been custom fitted into the location, which would be determined by the end of the rails having saw marks on them, or saw marks on the ties.

There's a few other indicators but that's the most obvious and tells something about how old they are and whether the newer Shinohara turnouts would fit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/22 17:31 by TCnR.



Date: 01/13/22 17:35
Re: Replacing HO Scale Shinohara Switches - With What?
Author: 4thDistrict

Yes, they all have or had a metal throwbar. The problem is that someone has tried to convert some to DCC friendly switches and the conversion was done so poorly that they are falling apart or don't work well. They all need to be replaced, all 18 of them!!!  I don't have experience with Shinohara and short of buying one of each manufacturer's products, I don't know which brand is the best drop-in replacement.
 
TCnR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How old are these turnouts? For example do the
> have a metal section soldered between the points?
>
> There's a few other indicators but that's the most
> obvious and tells something about how old they
> are.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/22 07:56 by 4thDistrict.



Date: 01/14/22 03:52
Re: Replacing HO Scale Shinohara Switches - With What?
Author: SantaFeRuss

4thDistrict look into the new Walthers turnouts. I understand they are the replacement for the old Shinohora line of switches.

SantaFeRuss



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/22 03:53 by SantaFeRuss.



Date: 01/14/22 09:14
Re: Replacing HO Scale Shinohara Switches - With What?
Author: trackplanner

Which rail code are they?



Date: 01/14/22 09:31
Re: Replacing HO Scale Shinohara Switches - With What?
Author: 4thDistrict

Code 83. Sorry, should have mentioned that and have edited the original post.

trackplanner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which rail code are they?



Date: 01/14/22 09:35
Re: Replacing HO Scale Shinohara Switches - With What?
Author: dwb909

Problem there is according to Walthers, they are all sold out and no new expected delivery date is known.



Date: 01/14/22 10:31
Re: Replacing HO Scale Shinohara Switches - With What?
Author: ATSFSuperCap

I think you have plainly stated your answer at least two times.    You have made hundereds of handlaid switches.   So make 18 more.   I have also made many (not 300) handlaid switches and they are always better than any store bought ones.   I have a large layout with double track mainline ( Santa Fe western NM left hand running) with a mix of handlaid, Shinohara and Micro Engineering switches they all work fine.    I have both versions of Shinohara the earlier standard style and the so called DCC style.    I have even rebuilt destoyed Shinoharas.    I got lazy on this layout and only hand built the ones that had site specific requirements, like they are on curves.    And, you do not need so called DCC friendly switches, all the requirements needed for DC are the same as DCC.



Date: 01/14/22 12:22
Re: Replacing HO Scale Shinohara Switches - With What?
Author: PHall

ATSFSuperCap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you have plainly stated your answer at
> least two times.    You have made hundereds of
> handlaid switches.   So make 18 more.   I have
> also made many (not 300) handlaid switches and
> they are always better than any store bought
> ones.   I have a large layout with double track
> mainline ( Santa Fe western NM left hand running)
> with a mix of handlaid, Shinohara and Micro
> Engineering switches they all work fine.    I
> have both versions of Shinohara the earlier
> standard style and the so called DCC style.    I
> have even rebuilt destoyed Shinoharas.    I got
> lazy on this layout and only hand built the ones
> that had site specific requirements, like they are
> on curves.    And, you do not need so called DCC
> friendly switches, all the requirements needed for
> DC are the same as DCC.

Maybe the customer doesn't want handlaid switches on his layout?



Date: 01/14/22 15:40
Re: Replacing HO Scale Shinohara Switches - With What?
Author: BAB

4thDistrict Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you have plainly ignored my question at
> least two times. It's not up to me if they are
> hand laid or prefab. It's what the owner wants.
>
> And, you are incorrect. There IS a difference with
> DCC friendly and non-DCC friendly switches - the
> possible of shorting.
>
> ATSFSuperCap Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think you have plainly stated your answer at
> > least two times.    You have made hundereds
> of
> > handlaid switches.   So make 18 more.   I
> have
> > also made many (not 300) handlaid switches and
> > they are always better than any store bought
> > ones.   I have a large layout with double
> track
> > mainline ( Santa Fe western NM left hand
> running)
> > with a mix of handlaid, Shinohara and Micro
> > Engineering switches they all work fine.    I
> > have both versions of Shinohara the earlier
> > standard style and the so called DCC style.   
> I
> > have even rebuilt destoyed Shinoharas.    I
> got
> > lazy on this layout and only hand built the
> ones
> > that had site specific requirements, like they
> are
> > on curves.    And, you do not need so called
> DCC
> > friendly switches, all the requirements needed
> for
> > DC are the same as DCC.
Have a ladder of those old switches used on a hidden ladder did nothing to them no shorts all metal no plastic except the ties. Work great found them at a swap meet cheep. The ladder has about ten of them in it and more leading to it.



Date: 01/14/22 21:02
Re: Replacing HO Scale Shinohara Switches - With What?
Author: TCnR

There appears to be three 'generations' of Shinohara track switches involved here, the build with switch points soldered to a metal plate or bridge; the newer 'DCC friendly' build with the isolated points and isolated frog; the very recent and out of stock at Walthers build.

The early and DCC friendly generations were very similar in dimensions, angles, the ones I've seen were pretty much a drop in replacement. The obvious question becomes does the most recent version drop into the previous version footprint. That would either eliminate the newest build or indicate that's the one to try. Separately, if you can't find them inyour time frame and frog numbers, then that would eliminate that whole idea.

From what I understand the other manufacturer switches simply don't fit into the footprint, the length, the angle for example of the other maker's track switches. That points to building from scratch to match the existing size or to convert into another manufaturer.

Another idea would be to rebuild / replace the points and frogs of the old switches, leaving the outer stock rails in place, not sure how that would work out. At least there's some options.



Date: 01/14/22 22:17
Re: Replacing HO Scale Shinohara Switches - With What?
Author: 4thDistrict

Thank you. This is very helpful information.

TCnR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There appears to be three 'generations' of
> Shinohara track switches involved here, the build
> with switch points soldered to a metal plate or
> bridge; the newer 'DCC friendly' build with the
> isolated points and isolated frog; the very recent
> and out of stock at Walthers build.
>
> The early and DCC friendly generations were very
> similar in dimensions, angles, the ones I've seen
> were pretty much a drop in replacement. The
> obvious question becomes does the most recent
> version drop into the previous version footprint.
> That would either eliminate the newest build or
> indicate that's the one to try. Separately, if you
> can't find them inyour time frame and frog
> numbers, then that would eliminate that whole
> idea.
>
> From what I understand the other manufacturer
> switches simply don't fit into the footprint, the
> length, the angle for example of the other maker's
> track switches. That points to building from
> scratch to match the existing size or to convert
> into another manufaturer.
>
> Another idea would be to rebuild / replace the
> points and frogs of the old switches, leaving the
> outer stock rails in place, not sure how that
> would work out. At least there's some options.



Date: 01/14/22 23:26
Re: Replacing HO Scale Shinohara Switches - With What?
Author: tracktime

As your existing Shinohara trackage is Code 83, have you considered trying the latest line of "WalthersTrack" turnouts from Walthers?  It's my understanding that they are direct replacements for Shinohara turnouts, sharing the same footprint and track geometry.

Of course, they are all out of stock right now, but perhaps eventually back again.

https://www.walthers.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?p=2&q=WalthersTrack+code+83+turnout
For the above link, you'll have to scroll down a bit past the turnout controls for the actual track listings..

Cheers,
Harry
 



Date: 01/15/22 11:04
Re: Replacing HO Scale Shinohara Switches - With What?
Author: TCnR

Apparently the folks who bought up all the new turnouts are not on this post. I did some Google searches and found a website with photos and some explanation of the new switches:

https://wiringfordcc.com/switches_walthers.htm

At first glance the diverging route looks different, but I think that the tie strip is different not necessarily the angle. The way the ties had been layed out always bothered me so I might be reading too much into it.

Interesting to note that the new design does not have an actual hinge for the points, the rail is a single piece leading into the frog. Previous designs had a trimmed rail joiner holding two pieces of rail together.

The material between the points is different again, interesting to see how that works. This was also an odd looking rivet style feature of the previous Shinohara design.

It may be worthwhile to find a way to photocopy the new design and lay it on the old turnout locations, acknowledging that the photocopy is not a true 1:1 copy, but it might rule out the obvious concerns.



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