Model Railroading > NCE Wireless Woes

While Speed Matching a pair of engines, I experienced some goofy behavior from the NCE ProCab.  The Horn button gave me Coupler Clank, and the response time for keystrokes was really sluggish.  After installing a fresh set of batteries in the ProCab hand-held unit, no change.  I am running the wireless version, which is much more convenient.  As a test, I removed the wireless and attached the cable.  My problems went away.  :-0

The transmitter/receiver unit (on top of the DCC Command Station) and the antenna on the ProCab are maybe 3 feet apart.  Surely it is not an issue of transmission range.  I disassembled the transmitter/receiver unit, but did not find any batteries (coin-type or otherwise).  I don't have any sources of radio interference (that I know of) in the garage.  

There are "high gain" antennas available.  I'm tempted to get some to see if that solves the issue.  
​[url=https://tonystrains.com/product/nce-5240212-high-gain-antenna]https://tonystrains.com/product/nce-5240212-high-gain-antenna[/url]

I noticed the NCE throttles at La Mesa are all tethered.  Maybe they have had issues with wireless throttles?

For the NCE users out there that have tried the wireless option, what has been your experience?
Thank you in advance for sharing!  :-D

Dave

Is it an old NCE system? Did you do the wireless upgrade?
There was a major issue with NCE wireless, that a patch completely cured. And made it bullet
proof.
It's been so long ago, I don't remember the details but I would think a call to NCEwith you system
 serilal numbers would get an answer. I don't know if the Mark and Marks are on here, They discovered
the flaw and solution. It may also be doc'd in the NCE DCC group.
I wish I could be more help, but it was long ago.

Greetings inyosub!

> Is it an old NCE system?
It is ancient.  At least 2 decades old.

>Did you do the wireless
> upgrade?
No. I was not aware there was one.

> There was a major issue with NCE wireless, that a
> patch completely cured. And made it bullet
> proof.
EXCELLENT!  :-D
I was hoping that it could be fixed.  I REALLY like the convenience of the wireless.

> It's been so long ago, I don't remember the
> details but I would think a call to NCEwith you
> system
>  serilal numbers would get an answer. I don't
> know if the Mark and Marks are on here,
I will contact them.

> They discovered
> the flaw and solution. It may also be doc'd in the
> NCE DCC group.
I will take a look at that forum.

> I wish I could be more help, but it was long ago.
You have been VERY helpful!
I'm encouraged it is a known issue and a fix is out there.

Take care and God bless!
Dave

 

Here's the NCE forum on groups dot io:

https://groups.io/g/NCE-DCC

There's a number of interesting hobby related groups that transferred over from Yahoo Groups.

The search feature is very useful, posting questions works as well.

There's also groups for RR historical groups and a number of model layout topics, groups for ESU-Loksound and so on.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/25 11:26 by TCnR.

T.O. at it's best!!

We are using NCE wireless on a 30x60 layout with as many as a dozen throttles in use at any one time.  We recently repostioned three repeaters in an attempt to improve response and the system is working better.  We have a six-inch thick concrete wall and a large heating unit to work around, as well as Masonite backdrops.  The system received the updates of several years ago but there are still issues with dead spots in coverage, slowness acquiring or dismissing cab assignments and so on.  Body mass problems also affect the signals.  Our IT guy is now studying Wifi-based systems to see if there's an affordable alternative.

Go WiFI. Most older systems with new WiFi components seem to work way better. 

Mike ONeill
Parker, CO

The front end of the NCE 'radio base station ' is somewhat blunt, it's not designed for sensitivity and not for a wide dynamic range, it's intended for a less strenuous hobby environment. That keeps the cost down and satisfies a great deal of the market. They use a frequency band that's assigned to experimental hobby use.

Wi-fi components have a very huge market and handle much wider dynamic range at a low cost. There are lots of systems on the market right now that plug-into the NCE command booster / network.

The trade-off becomes keeping control of the NCE cabs vs allowing anybody with a cell phone to access the Layout and the Wi-fi net for that matter. The IT guy will have to attend to everybodies cell phone rather than the limited number of NCE controllers.

Another approach is to have NCE Base Stations at opposite corners of the room.

The La Mesa layout has always used specially configured cables on the NCE throttles on their layout, AFAIK.  That said, Wifi throttles can also be used on the layout.

And even I was asked to connect the WiThrottleLite app on my cell phone to the layout during one op session to help move some locomotives to lockable storage boxes 
(their regular home between major op sessions) when the NCE system started misbehaving on a hot day and the session was being terminated early.
 

grahamline
My home layout is similar to your club.  25 x 33 but no walls to contend with. I have about 12-15 crew.
I have 2  wireless bases inverted on the ceiling and have really no trouble as to connectivity or delay.
The biggest problem I have is people are doing paperwork and forget the throttles time out and turn
off after a certain amount of inactivity. It's adjustable, but I'm fine where it is. Good luck on getting
the last bit ironed out.

Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We are using NCE wireless on a 30x60 layout with
> as many as a dozen throttles in use at any one
> time.  We recently repostioned three repeaters in
> an attempt to improve response and the system is
> working better.  We have a six-inch thick
> concrete wall and a large heating unit to work
> around, as well as Masonite backdrops.  The
> system received the updates of several years ago
> but there are still issues with dead spots in
> coverage, slowness acquiring or dismissing cab
> assignments and so on.  Body mass problems also
> affect the signals.  Our IT guy is now studying
> Wifi-based systems to see if there's an affordable
> alternative.

grahamline Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We are using NCE wireless on a 30x60 layout with
> as many as a dozen throttles in use at any one
> time.  We recently repostioned three repeaters in
> an attempt to improve response and the system is
> working better.  We have a six-inch thick
> concrete wall and a large heating unit to work
> around, as well as Masonite backdrops.  The
> system received the updates of several years ago
> but there are still issues with dead spots in
> coverage, slowness acquiring or dismissing cab
> assignments and so on.  Body mass problems also
> affect the signals.  Our IT guy is now studying
> Wifi-based systems to see if there's an affordable
> alternative.
I have a large 3120 sq ft multi deck NCE controlled RR. Up to 30 radio handsets per op session. What I discovered a few years back is less repeaters are better than more. My mainnroom is 31' by 79' with a 23 by 31 addition in the shape of a large L. I have the base station located in then ceiling pointing down in the middle of the large room and the one repeater in the middle of the addition again in the ceiling poiting down. I also located both units over the RR not the aisles as the area directly under the antenna is a dead zone. Unplug one repeater at a time and see if the radio reception improves. Also make sure you have the 2021 update to your command station and radio unit. I also updated my 06R and 01 R handsets . The 04R's and 05R's I have do not need any updates. ---  Ken 

There's stories on the web that the NCE receiver 'doesn't work' if the throttle is within a foot of the antenna. The idea being too much received power and the downconverted signal is being distorted by being out of it's operating range, in simple terms, causing the data stream to be incomprehensible. If we consider the NCE receiver to be of modest design or economically designed it also fits with classic radio receiver theory, ie the receiver probably does not use design choices like an AGC circuit or a fancy front end.

This suggests another fix for being too close to the antenna is to simply turn around. The human body has too much moisture to let the radio waves go through the body so the path would be bouncing off a wall or the floor which lessens the power level at the receiver input.

I'm also using the NCE system and am happy with it, even when I have to turn away from the antenna.