Passenger Trains > your thoughts what would you have done?

Breif synopsis first I commute from northern NJ everyday thru Penn Station NYC. Since 911 the station has had hoards of law enforcemnt and National Guardsmen toting m-4's. And usually at 7:15 am the station is packed with people rushing in all directions. Well this am I am doing my usual commute come in on NJT and walk thru the station up to 34th street. I usually traverse the LIRR concourse and up the corridor to 34th street escalators and as I make the turn from the concourse toward 34th street there is an entrance to the Subway station for the 1,2 and 3 which runs n/s under 7th ave. So this as I walk thru and the whole station is refreshingly light in traffic(no battle to get where you want), and as I walk I notice a well dressed(read not homeless) guy standing in the middle of the concourse snapping photos of the entrance to the subway. Mind you this entrance amounts to a large opening in the concourse wall with turnstyles maybe of some engineering interest but little if any architecture. So at this point I notice but initially look it off but when I look back the guy ducks into one of the many shops, weird right so I look around for the above mentioned Law Officers of Guardsmen and stangely the area is devoid of such personel. Still wondering what to do I continue my commute. What would you have done. I realize the sensitity of the subject here of photographing in and around terminals but this guy and his actions struck me.

They may regard that as the TA's jurisdiction, so NYC cops. Your observation should be brought to their attention.

Taking photos is a crime?

Maybe an investigator for a lawyer whose client alleges some injury there.
If he ducked into a shop maybe he wanted to buy something.
Anyone who wants a photo image of a site and does not want to be seen taking a picture can use a cell phone as they walk by. How many people with cell phones did you see? How many of them are members of terrorist groups?

If the guy "ducked in the shops" before I had a chance to get a good look at him, there is not much I could have done. It's not WHAT someone is doing, but WHO that someone is that's important if I want to fight crime, isn't it?

Usually, law enforcement harassment starts with someone calling it in. Saw a guy with a dog get handcuffed by cops (and dog taken to animal control) just because he tried to borrow someone's cell phone to make a phone call, and the cell phone owner got mad and call the cops on him. Too bad the guy with a dog had a criminal record, but still...

I would in this case based on what you have stated done nothing. It is not against the law to take a picture nor go into a shop.

Keith Hunter
FOREST CITY, IA

I would walk on and try to clear my mind of suspicious thoughts. All the energy focused on looking for "the bad" could be better used to create "the good."

pal77 Wrote:
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> I notice a well dressed(read not homeless) guy
> standing in the middle of the concourse snapping
> photos of the entrance to the subway. Mind you
> this entrance amounts to a large opening in the
> concourse wall with turnstyles maybe of some
> engineering interest but little if any
> architecture. So at this point I notice but
> initially look it off but when I look back the guy
> ducks into one of the many shops, weird right...

<average citizen>

So I noticed this guy wearing normal cloths taking pictures of a train. It's just a normal train and then he got in a car and left. Weird right? Should I call in his license plate number?

<Me>

Thanks to government induced paranoia things that are harmless and legal have been made to seem suspicious or even "illegal". There could be dozens of harmless reasons why that guy was taking the pictures he was. Maybe one day we'll ease away from the paranoia culture that's infused society. What should we really be focusing our national attention and resources on? Here's a clue, this is how many Americans die per year ranked by cause: (2009 data)

Cause of death1 Number

All causes 2,436,652

Cardiovascular diseases 779,367
Malignant neoplasms 568,668
Lack of Health Insurance3 44,789
Drug induced2 37,485
Suicide 36,547
Motor vehicle accidents 36,284
Septicemia (infections) 35,587
by Firearms 31,224
Accidental poisoning 30,504
Alcohol induced 23,199
Homicide 16,591

1 Based on the International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision, Second Edition, 2004
2 Drug induced include both legal and illicit drugs.
3 As calculated in the American Journal of Public Health.

How 'bout instead of funding the TSA which was little more than a new agency to do what was already being done by other people we instead put money towards things on that list that could save thousands of American lives per year? I'd rather have my tax money go towards providing health care or preventing a suicide than spending it on pointlessly harasing another photographer...

I'm not aware of any photography restrictions in the publicly accessible portions of Penn Station. It is, after all, a public building. A ticket is required to get down to track level, so if you wander down there with a camera technically it's trespassing (at least if you have no ticket), but there's nothing much to photograph either.

Some of these paranoid types seem unaware that Google Earth is chock full of zoomable images of bridges, railroad stations, and lots of other stuff, and is free to download. A while ago I hovered 50 feet about #10 Downing Street (British PM's residence), so close that I could see the blurred images of pedestrians on the sidewalk. Anyone can do this.

if you think it is suspicious, call the cops and have them investigate it..........

66

Possible scenario:

Guy sees an interesting photo opportunity. (He has an eye for interesting pics. Or he likes subways.)

He knows that security frowns on such things.

He grabs his little moment of art quickly, so as to be discreet and not attract unwanted attention, then goes about his business.

What would I have done?

I could very likely have been that guy. Many of us could.

~ BZ

Four letters: MYOB. Unless there's greater evidence of criminal intent than what I read here.

OK, I am an architect that works for a firm that has a division that specializes in historical preservation and renovation. I take photographs or every dang thing in a historical building; in this case, it is my decision what is "architecturally significant." The camera I use for this work operates on "A" batteries. So here's my take on this: This non-homeless-looking person is someone documenting the architecture of the station for his firm, and dang it anyway, the batteries died. Great, there's a shop.....

Now if he quickly ducked into a women's dress shop, then you may have something to be suspicious of. Otherwise, less paranoia, please. I am tired of explaining to authorities what I am doing as I recently was while taking pictures of a historic courthouse we were proposing on.

Guilty Guilty Guilty ... hang the SOB !!!!!!

and if he was of Middle Eastern decent what would you have done

and if he was of African-American decent what would you have done

and if he was of Chinese decent what would you have done

and if he was of Latino decent what would you have done

we live in a equally suspicious society ... treat everyone the same ... you should've dialed 911 and claimed a security emergency and had the man detained and stripped searched and taken to Guantanamo for water boarding interrogation

New York is full of interesting and photogenic people. Although you said that the area was less crowded than usual, it is possible the images desired by the photographer required fewer people on the scene. Perhaps he was doing a photo essay which is why he snapped the photo of the subway entrance.

As for entering in the one of many shops in Penn Station, there is nothing odd about doing so as the shops are there for people using Penn Station.

Go to the information desk and have an announcement made on the PA:
Attention. If you are here with somebody that is not your spouse and you shouldn't be, a private detective has been seen on the premises.

TAW

with cell phone cameras, one can take a photo and no one knows...

Back in the day, wasn't there a song about paranoia in the musical 'Hair".

NormSchultze Wrote:
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> Back in the day, wasn't there a song about
> paranoia in the musical 'Hair".


Buffalo Springfield had a paranoia song

"For What It's Worth."