Passenger Trains > So long Lake Shore Limited Dining Cars

To be blamed on a shortage of Heritage diners, a "modified dining car service" will start on 49(20July) and 48(21July).  Trains will now consist of two Amfleet II lounge cars (one operating as a modified diner and the other as a lounge).

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,4073938

So this is to be yet another part of Unsafe Joe Boardman's legacy? 

How long before he cancels the CAF order for diners, modifying it to something he can use on the
Nothing Else Counts?

I hear ya there Gene!

Thsi was tried on that train once before. The food was horrible. What is the issue with the old diners? Not to beat a dead horse, but VIA is running diners of the exact same vintage. They are beautiful and don't seem to have any obvious mechanical issues. So now there are two long distance Amtrak trains I would never consider riding. I hate to say it, but Delta One food is better than the crap being served in the Amfleeet II food service cars.

We don't know what shape these Heritage cars are in, or how often it causes late departures from Sunnyside or anywhere else. The fact is, when the Silver or Crescent trains have a bad diner, they steal it from the Lake Shore in SS yard, which has much less need for one. I've had that happen. It wasn't so bad, except there is no steak because there is no grill. I don't like steak anyway.

More to the point, when are these CAF Clowns going to put out more cars and why is not Amtrak mgmt camping in Elmira  ? Seems to me they did all they could to stamp out the child's play of 70 baggage cars, but have been catching their breath ever since. Amtrak mgmt was foolish to not disqualify them in the first place, given their inexperience at building FRA-cert rail cars, and the rather crappy series of WMATA 5K cars.

The difference between the Amtrak Heritage fleet and VIA's HEP fleet is Amtrak damaged the cars in doing the 480v conversion, torching off old equipment, drilling bolt holes into center sills, etc.

Are they going to reduce the sleeping car rates then?

Joe Boardman should be put out of Amtrak now!  He has allowed the deterioration of equipment and service to happen under his watch. 

We cannot get diners repaired and in good condition, but we seem to have $150M for raising the  NEC to 150mph for 25 miles.  This and other stupid decisions speak loudly for my judgment.

That would be a good challenge for Amtrak's supporters, employees, and stake holders to discuss. And deliver the challenge to Congress.

What should be done, what will it cost, what will it produce, etc.

Cory Booker announced yesterday that another hundred million was going into the new Hudson River tunnel project. That's one major part of the to-do list.

Posted from Android

What is happening is Amtrak is making the decision to discontinue capital maintenance on the heritage diners since they are to be retired. The idea was that CAF would deliver the new diners before too many fell out of service. However the delays have been so bad at CAF it has forced Amtrak to have to look into what trains to reduce dining service on until the new diners arrive.

Putting the cart before the horse....

< The idea was that CAF would deliver the new diners before too many fell out of service.

There is blame on both sides. Amtrak has known for a couple of years that CAF is run by the Three Stooges and should take nothing for granted. I don't think anyone in Boardman's office is losing a wink of sleep over diner issues. He thinks John Mica is Amtrak's Board Chairman.

If John Mica was Amtrak's board chairman, a lot of things would be different.

mp51w Wrote:
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> Are they going to reduce the sleeping car rates
> then?

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CAF:  Cars Aren't Finished

bretton88 Wrote:
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> What is happening is Amtrak is making the decision
> to discontinue capital maintenance on the heritage
> diners since they are to be retired. The idea was
> that CAF would deliver the new diners before too
> many fell out of service. However the delays have
> been so bad at CAF it has forced Amtrak to have to
> look into what trains to reduce dining service on
> until the new diners arrive.

Why can't management learn.  What in the transportation industry is delivered "ontime and on schedule".  Never seems to happen.  If you are buying replacement equipment for 2120, you should expect it probably in 2024, and be prepared to keep the present equipment running for an extra 4-6 years. 

Why learn if one's feet are not held to the fire for not learning . Imagine school if there were no tests.

I mentioned this in an analysis on an earlier post that Amtrak has taken a LOT of Heritage Diners out of service and placed in Chicago - for movement likely to Beech Grove. The had a fleet of 19 Heritage Diners and 11 are required for current assignments (without accounting for substitutes). I think there were like 12 Heritage Diners sitting in Chicago. Cracks in the center sill were given reasons for their withdrawal. But all this leaves Amtrak is at a net negative with Heritage Diners, and likely using the prototype Diner as the substitute count.

So there goes the Lake Shore in order to account for the reduction that is needed. Amtrak can have only 8 assigned Hertiage Diners - 4 for the Silver Meteor and 4 for the Crescent.

CAF needs to come up with Diners ASAP. The Lake Shore did not make it before with Diner Lite and there is NO WAY a second round will stick. Customer complaints and Amtrak Management complaints finally led them to restore the Heritage Diners BACK to the Lake Shore Limited. I thought it was Rosenwald that got the diners back on the Lake Shore. Four Heritage Diners were put back in service (3 for assignment, one as a substitute). They were supposed to be the best of the best of the Heritage Diners, but guess if they are still operable, they are headed to the Crescent or Meteor.  

Diner Lite on the Lake Shore Limited - a train with three sleepers and up to five coaches. IT DOES NOT WORK! They need a diner, but understandable in some capacity they have been withdrawn from service. I wouldn't ride this train with Diner Lite food - trash can sitting across from me etc. I'll be back on the Capitol Limited. To me that seems to be the premiere train to/from Chicago. Problem is, the Lake Shore is the clean-up train OUT of Chicago.  

In pricing out future trips from Springfield MA to Chicago with sleeper, time and time again, NEC train 141 to WAS and the Capitol Limited (29) to CHI always comes in about $100 dollars cheaper!!!  I've recognized this for at least 10 years or more.  While I prefer the mid-afternoon departure from Springfield on 449 vs 6AM on 141, I much prefer the $100 savings each way.  And, not surprisingly, when offered a sleeper on 449, the Boston section is always $50-100 more than the NY section even riding coach to ALB.  The same pricing 'spread' works eastbound as well. 

For what it's worth, under the old AGR zone-based point redemption plan, I took the Lakeshore Limited about 1/2 the time, especially when I wanted to leave (and arrive) in the afternoon from/to Springfield.  Now that it's based on cost of the ticket, I think the Lakeshore has seen the last of me! 

BRAtkinson Wrote:
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> In pricing out future trips from Springfield MA to
> Chicago with sleeper, time and time again, NEC
> train 141 to WAS and the Capitol Limited (29) to
> CHI always comes in about $100 dollars
> cheaper!!!  I've recognized this for at least 10
> years or more.  While I prefer the mid-afternoon
> departure from Springfield on 449 vs 6AM on 141, I
> much prefer the $100 savings each way.  And, not
> surprisingly, when offered a sleeper on 449, the
> Boston section is always $50-100 more than the NY
> section even riding coach to ALB.  The same
> pricing 'spread' works eastbound as well. 
>
> For what it's worth, under the old AGR zone-based
> point redemption plan, I took the Lakeshore
> Limited about 1/2 the time, especially when I
> wanted to leave (and arrive) in the afternoon
> from/to Springfield.  Now that it's based on cost
> of the ticket, I think the Lakeshore has seen the
> last of me! 

Capitol Limited has ALWAYS been cheaper for me as well. Guess Amtrak can demand a higher market out of Boston and NYC! But wonder if they warn people about the recent downgrade in dining to Diner Lite.

More layoffs Amtrak gets to implement if operating just a Diner Lite and not a full service Diner.