Passenger Trains > Amtrak via Amarillo (again)

Several members of Amtrak management met with BNSF this week in Albuquerque, to discuss re-routing trains #3/4 off of Raton Pass.
The "benefits" for BNSF include a savings of $15 million in track maintenance and repair to accomodate passenger train operations. Amtrak says they could drop the fourth P42DC by avoiding Raton Pass. So, in their eyes, it seems to be a win-win situation for both sides. The passengers, however, are always the ones who loose.

How the talks ended is not known, but I\'m sure the news will hit the fan soon....Sooooooo, speak up Greg Konstanzer!
L - running on color

Will be sad to see this happen.

A few pros and cons to think about, but the list can be much longer.

With the loss of Raton, they can remove one of the four summer coaches, since the Boy Scouts will no longer be able to get to summer camp by rail. Loss of revenue and ridership and the introduction of the youth that travel can be by rail.

The Denver - Raton Thruway Bus brings good business, 22 on Fridays bus. Loss of revenue and ridership on the train.

Lots of folks go to Lamy for Santa Fe, the State Capitol and hearvy toursit area etc.

They can close four stations.
Could be a smother ride, but how much freight delays?

Only $15 million dollers, hell, our Govt throws away this amount every few hours.

Also, they would effectively eliminate the ABQ stop as well, since the transcon misses ABQ by about 30 miles. That would also cost them significant ridership.

One advantage of staying on the Raton route (for BNSF) is that it stays off of the busy transcon for a great many miles.

Another brilliant idea by Amtrak?

This would eliminate Lamy? Too bad...

...Amtrak from LA to Lamy in 1986 was my introduction to the Cumbres & Toltec. My dad took me (3 years old at the time) to Lamy with the shuttle connection to Santa Fe where we had planned to rent a car and drive to Durango. Talked to some woman on the shuttle and she suggest C&TS. Been back twice since, and I\'m only 20, which isn\'t too bad. Was hoping to be able to repeat the trip someday.

In a word the Amarillo line is BORING! I\'ve ridden both and prefer by far the Raton route.

Previous game plan was that train would operate in and out of Albuqerque, with train being turned. I have assumed that this remains the Case.

One good thing about the southern route, it goes through Abo Canyon. Also, it would reduce transit time.

Running via Belen to Albuquerque and then out west would make no sense and would kill the schedule. That doesn\'t mean they won\'t do it though. If Amtrak wants to run trough Amarillo the easiest way to handle the Albuquerque pssengers is by bus, maybe starting at Santa Fe. Let\'s just hope the train stays on the northern route.

What kind of speeds can the Amarillo line support? Would this reroute affect the 60 mile long stretch of 90 mph track that was mentioned in another thread, or would the route meet back up with the Needles sub?

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?f=4&i=70348&t=70224

Lets face it if Amtrak decides that saving one locomotive is more important than serving its riders then the Raton line and Albuquerque are history. If the rerout provides an opportunity for the company to stick it too the T&E guys it\'s a done deal for sure.
The reroute of the Sunset bypassing Phoenix is a perfect example, customers, passengers aren\'t nearly as important to Amtrak as the plesaure of cutting jobs.
Amtrak , ever ready to step over a $ to pick up a dime.

Hate to say it but the Old Amtrak seems to be returning despite Gunn, Lynn Berberian being a prime example. In the early 80\'s she believed all the increase in Amtrak ridership was due to"foamers taking a last ride" job one was getting things ready for the final shut down. To heck with making $$ show me a way to cut a penny! Amtrak\'s still in the hands of the folks who want to be the one who turns the light out and locks the doors on the last day.

Athough this isn\'t the first time a reroute has been talked about, it should be noted that in the recent past, and probably this time, too, talk of reroute sprouts when BNSF wants to downgrade the line, or wants off it completely. While the United States Government does throw away much more than 15 million dollars at a pop, Amtrak doesn\'t have that luxury, and comparing the US Government to Amtrak is like comparing the value of diamonds to anthracite. Saving 15 million IS a big deal when you come by it the hard way.
Remember folks, a lot of these decisions are not Amtrak motivated nor are they Amtrak driven.
Yes, a reroute takes 3 and 4 off Raton, but Donner or the Front Range, Raton isn\'t. While many fans will sob, I doubt seriously that the casual traveler will notice a significant change, except for the noted reduction in run time.
BNSF has historically done a very, very good job of keeping Amtrak moving, regardless of the territory. With the portion of the railroad between Clovis and Fort Sumner now apparently two main track CTC and in some parts, 3 main track, I see no reason to doubt their skill, here, either.
3 and 4, in losing Lamy, Raton, La Junta, etc., could conceivably pick up Belen, Clovis, Amraillo, etc., significantly larger communities with a much brader passenger base, drawing riders from such places as Lubbock. Denver connections could still be made, and please remember all the talk and articles about the Caprock Chief. While the policy is no new trains for now, a connection out of Amarillo makes sense. ABQ connections could conceivably be a bus; it has been done successfully in othe parts of the country.
I know the people who are working on this and who are watching it; they are not the idiots many make them out to be. Who knows? It may come to pass, and maybe it won\'t. Whatever happens, it is going to be interesting.

The points addressed by Mr. Mundo are of course noted. The Boy Scouts have traditionally been good customers with their Philmont Scout ranch near Raton - and they are perfectly willing to ride coach (even though I suggested to a neighbor Scoutmaster to get a sleeper; "no, no, good enough for the Scouts; good enough for me").

Albuquerque has been a freight "depot" for Amtrak, but with that business ostensibly being phased out (sometimes wonder when I see 3 or 4 by here with 24 freight cars in consist), the need to serve Albuquerque will diminish.

Lastly, without Raton Pass, the David Baldacci novel, "The Christmas Train" will become more fiction than it already is.

When Amtrak dumps express, that eliminates the 4th engine, so no more win-win situation with BNSF by a flatter reroute. Given Amtrak\'s end-point mentality with long distance trains, they could never see the value of the Desert Wind and Pioneer, so I doubt they will see themselves as ruining this train either.

I agree with joemcvnj because that\'s why Amtrak needs the 4TH Unit is because of the express. In fact Amtrak can handle the 24 car train with three! I rode 4 back in January with 3 P42s up front and 26 cars and those locos were purring like kittens over Cajon Pass and handled the Arizona Divide smoothly (even though we ran around pretty much every hot freight they had that night on the Seligman Sub) so they can handle 3 units on a 24 car train easily. Once the Express is gone and they MHCs come back and placed between the locomotives and the Baggage (unless they tag those on when 4 backs into LAUPT) 3 units will be a rarity.

The re-route has been talked about for 20 years but now there are more factors in favor of it. ABQ can still be served by using the Belen Dist and using the wye or a power runaround in ABQ. This wouldn\'t have worked with the express, but supposedly that is coming off.

A bigger question is whether Amtrak will serve Newton/Wichita or take the Ellinor cut-off. Station times would be very unattractive in Wichita anyway. Probably better to build a new station for the area where I-35 intersects the transcon main. The time saved by taking the cutoff could be applied to the up and down move into ABQ. Bob

Repeatedly, its been stated and some overlook, that BNSF wants to downgrade the line. Generally with a downgrade comes slower speeds.

Also, and I don\'t know the territory, its been written that a Belen- Albuquerque connection will exist.

On the plus side, Amarillo has a population over 200,000 and Witchita over 300,000 - a nice new market.

Amarillo could become an intermediate hotspot for passenger traffic. Thirty miles south down a good highway is Palo Duro Canyon (State Park), which is almost as grand as, and more readily accessible than, the Grand Canyon.

In the town of Canyon, near the canyon/park entrance, is the state\'s best Texas history museum.

Bill in Texas

bnsfbob wrote:

> The re-route has been talked about for 20 years
> but now there are more factors in favor of it.
> ABQ can still be served by using the Belen Dist
> and using the wye or a power runaround in
> ABQ.

Just for reference, from Belen to Isleta is
dark territory. The only wye I\'m aware of
at Albuquerque is located about 3 miles south
of the station, next to the Kachina Lift and
the automobile facility. Amtrak turned the
SWChief on that wye back in 1993 when floods
in the midwest saw the train terminating at
Albuquerque for a week or so. It was a slow
process, and while I haven\'t been back to see
what condition the track is in now, I\'d be
surprised if it wasn\'t still Excepted Track.
It would need some upgrades before they could
take an occupied passenger train around it.

I\'ve read that while Amtrak is dumping express,
they plan on retaining the mail contracts. Even
before the express experiment, the SWChief was
handling 4-5 MHC\'s, and some mail was off-loaded
at Albuquerque. Is that still the case?

We know (and need not repeating) that Santa Fe has been wanting to do this for 20 years. However, leaving ABQ means Domenici\'s cool-lukewarm support of AMtrak in general will get as negative as any Arizona Republican.

Any potential tourist train operators out there?

RailNet802, out