Passenger Trains > NTSB: SEPTA train that burned had problems that were ignored

The SEPTA Silverliner IV that was destroyed in a spectacular fire in Delaware County PA had been reported with "sluggish performance" by an engineer earlier in the day. SEPTA Mechanical found "problems" but the train was left in service. Crew reported smelling smoke on its fatal trip on the Wilmington line, stopped and discovered the fire.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD25FR006.aspx

GenePoon Wrote:
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"...on its fatal trip..."

Huh?  NTSB report says there were no fatalities.

mike woodruff
north platte ne

Maybe the Silverliner 4 was the fatality?

GenePoon Wrote:
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> The SEPTA Silverliner IV that was destroyed in a
> spectacular fire in Delaware County PA had been
> reported with "sluggish performance" by an
> engineer earlier in the day. SEPTA Mechanical
> found "problems" but the train was left in
> service. Crew reported smelling smoke on its fatal
> trip on the Wilmington line, stopped and
> discovered the fire.
>
> https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD25FR0
> 06.aspx

Since the equipment is 50 plus years old I would expect these types of propulsion faults to be fairly common so keeping the train in service could have been in accordence with SEPTA's experiance with whatever fault the mechanical crews identified.  (I recall in the final years of PATCO's unrebuilt cars it was notable when a 6 car set didn't have at least one dead motor if not more.) It could be that the mechanical forces mis-identified the fault or were unaware of the long term consequences of the fault going unresolved. 

The Silverliner IV's use a  pretty reliable GE phase angle propulsion system with two fixed voltage stages for gross speed control and a variable stage for fine control. The proof of the reliability is demonstrated by the age of the fleet. 

mbrotzman Wrote:
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> GenePoon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The SEPTA Silverliner IV that was destroyed in
> a
> > spectacular fire in Delaware County PA had been
> > reported with "sluggish performance" by an
> > engineer earlier in the day. SEPTA Mechanical
> > found "problems" but the train was left in
> > service. Crew reported smelling smoke on its
> fatal
> > trip on the Wilmington line, stopped and
> > discovered the fire.
> >
> >
> https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD25FR0
>
> > 06.aspx
>
> Since the equipment is 50 plus years old I would
> expect these types of propulsion faults to be
> fairly common so keeping the train in service
> could have been in accordence with SEPTA's
> experiance with whatever fault the mechanical
> crews identified.  (I recall in the final years
> of PATCO's unrebuilt cars it was notable when a 6
> car set didn't have at least one dead motor if not
> more.) It could be that the mechanical forces
> mis-identified the fault or were unaware of the
> long term consequences of the fault going
> unresolved. 
>
> The Silverliner IV's use a  pretty reliable GE
> phase angle propulsion system with two fixed
> voltage stages for gross speed control and a
> variable stage for fine control. The proof of the
> reliability is demonstrated by the age of the
> fleet. 

You could just say AC propulsion.....

Don't they have DC traction motors ? They never got a rebuild like the NJT Arrow-III did to AC. 

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> Maybe the Silverliner 4 was the fatality?

It was DEFINITELY a fatality!!!!
 

GenePoon Wrote:
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> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Maybe the Silverliner 4 was the fatality?
>
> It was DEFINITELY a fatality!!!!
>  

Gene, usually when they say fatality they're talking about humans not machines.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/25 18:20 by PHall.

INEPTA mis-management never learns. A few years ago,
there was a Silverliner "fatality" at Overbrook after mechanics
"bad ordered" the car, but supervision released it anyway
and then........Fire!   One good thing about INEPTA -
they make NJT look normal.

The crew did an exceptional job of moving passengers to the rear, protecting the main and evacuating With no injuries at all.  Without their prudent action, there could have been human fatalities not just Silverliners.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Don't they have DC traction motors ? They never
> got a rebuild like the NJT Arrow-III did to AC. 

Correct, they use the origional phase angle "chopper" type control system, although they did have the mercury arc components swapped out for SCR's. Phase angle means part of the rectification system fires at a specific point in the AC waveform. This creates a variable voltage from the point of view of the DC motor. 

I asked someone familliar with the SL-IV propulsion gear what they thought caused the fire and their speculation was that it was something to do with the dynamic brake controller, which is near where the fire occured and uses a camshaft system to cut in the resistance grids. If a portion of the dynamic brake was stuck on while the train was taking power, ie siphoning off proplusion power directly into the brake grids, it would have caused sluggish acceleration and overheating. 

engineerinvirginia Wrote:
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>
> You could just say AC propulsion.....

It's a DC chopper system as in it creates a chopped DC waveform from input AC current. 

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/25 05:45 by mbrotzman.