Passenger Trains > Amtrak 448/449 Cancelled Until 2026?

I've been reading that the problem on the Post Road Branch is more serious than originally thought, and that it is likely going to be months until service is restored.

Supposedly Amtrak is reducing booking on 448/449 so they only have to run one bus between Rensselaer and Boston.

And I guess the "Berkshire Flyer" is now a bus. If it even runs at all.

Will they cut the consist from 5 to 4 coaches ?

Nobody knows anything. As usual we have to piece together what's going on from bits of info from various indirect sources.

I've heard the problem is on Amtrak's Post Road Sub., between Niverville and Albany-Rensselaer.
Have heard mention of a sink hole.
Andy

twropr Wrote:
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> I've heard the problem is on Amtrak's Post Road
> Sub., between Niverville and Albany-Rensselaer.
> Have heard mention of a sink hole.
> Andy

Yes this much we know.

SNY1337 Wrote:
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> The structural/sink hole issues are correct. It's
> around mp196, west of Hays Rd crossing.

Took them some number of months to clean up I-80's sink holes in NJ. Lots of abandoned mine tunnels decided to cave in. 
Cutting 2 buses to 1 is typical Amtrak pettiness. They could bus bridge Springfield - Rensselaer and cover a 448/449 stub train with one 2 car consist with a 2 hour turn in Springfield. 

There's no reason that Amtrak could not detour around the Post Road Branch via CSX's Castleton Sub, which connects the Hudson Line to the B&A. It would require a reverse move on the Castleton Sub, which would be time-consuming compared to the Post Road Branch. But it would offer passengers a one-seat ticket whether they are on the Lake Shore or the Berkshire Flyer, rather than being forced onto a bus.

 

MP403 Wrote:
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> There's no reason that Amtrak could not detour
> around the Post Road Branch via CSX's Castleton
> Sub, which connects the Hudson Line to the B&A. It
> would require a reverse move on the Castleton Sub,
> which would be time-consuming compared to the Post
> Road Branch. But it would offer passengers a
> one-seat ticket whether they are on the Lake Shore
> or the Berkshire Flyer, rather than being forced
> onto a bus.

That's exactly what they used to do before they reopened the Post Road.

Doing that would require genuine desire and effort on Amtrak's part. I'm pretty sure qualified pilots would be required at additional cost. Let's not forget that bonuses must be protected here.

It has gotten way too easy for Amtrak to just cancel trains and offer their "sincere apologies".

Don't worry everyone.  The tough, hard nosed, Amtrak advocating RPA will be dealing with this....

No need to cut the consist of 48/49 , you still need the capacity to protect 448/449 travel between CHI and ALB . . 

mvrr10 Wrote:
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> No need to cut the consist of 48/49 , you still
> need the capacity to protect 448/449 travel
> between CHI and ALB . . 

Not if the capacity of 1 Viewlner + 2 coaches (~135) trains east of Albany is cut to one 55 passenger bus. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/25 12:52 by joemvcnj.

I was leaving for Chicago from Springfield at the end of the month.  Got the cancellation notice yesterday.  However, I saw it coming and already rebooked from Boston to NYC to Chicago.  Can you go from Springfield to NYC?  Normally, but not now.  Two midday runs are canceled due to track work, so the only option from NH is to drive or bus to Boston to go to NYC to go west.  

Bottom line is that Amtrak management not only doesn't care about its customers, they may even view them with disdain.  It just keeps getting worse.  Gardner is gone and things continue to devolve.  I am just about fed up.

What' going on with Acela I service?  I looked at a scedule today, there are only two NB early AM depatures.  Everything else is regionals.  Are they phasing out the old ones already?

They are giving up the ghost.  The trains are past their intended lifespan, and dropping like flies.  Everything will be a regional before the new trains arrive at this rate.

This company is a mess.  Complete mess.  

PRR1361 Wrote:
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> What' going on with Acela I service?  I looked at
> a scedule today, there are only two NB early AM
> depatures.  Everything else is regionals.  Are
> they phasing out the old ones already?

PRR1361 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What' going on with Acela I service?  I looked at
> a scedule today, there are only two NB early AM
> depatures.  Everything else is regionals.  Are
> they phasing out the old ones already?

Greatly reduced service from what was, sadly.

There was a Board Member at the last public meeting that added concern - or at least hinted at it. He brought into question the current [damaged supply/demand for] Acela Express 1.0 ops and asked how certain was Amtarak management that the Next Gen Acelas would be filling a real need at FULL capacity!!! In other words, could the damage in the brand restored and what's the confidence level that Next Gen Acelas will operate at full capacity. It was a brief question and very hurriedly answered and they moved on. I found it to be a very interesting question. Definitely something that this board member had thought smartly about!!! 

You meant -

The Big Beautiful RPA.


regalstream1516 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't worry everyone.  The tough, hard nosed,
> Amtrak advocating RPA will be dealing with
> this....

restricted_speed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doing that would require genuine desire and effort
> on Amtrak's part. I'm pretty sure qualified pilots
> would be required at additional cost. Let's not
> forget that bonuses must be protected here.
>
> It has gotten way too easy for Amtrak to just
> cancel trains and offer their "sincere apologies".

Listen, I get the constant and outward bash on the "bonus protection" of C-Suite management - that they want to cut COSTS to preserve their bonuses. But by NO means am I saying it has validity. Frankly, I am not sure if Amtrak C-Suite management is really that smart, or really has that as a truly focused point. I say that because the inefficiencies of ops concerning Venture Cars, Viewliner Cars, and most importantly the constant breakdowns/cancellations/truncation of trains due to Chargers/ALC42s failures are a HUGE drain in Amtrak expense. Amtrak has to call in buses, call in freight locomotives to get assistance, etc.

Simply put, are they that short-sighted to see that their band-aid approaches to stop the expense bleeding by the failed Sieman's product alone is blowing up their expenses MUCH more so than busing Amtrak 448/449 passengers!!! If Amtrak C-Suite Management thinks that curtailing the 448/449 service is going to overcome and be cheaper than the constant flow of expenses POURED out to cover for the poor operation of the Sieman's product (and I am using that broadly - Sieman's Products), then they are really misled and dumber than a box of rocks.

Amtrak loves to hire planners and consultants - for designing, equipment, stations, lounges, etc. How about hiring front line train operator (consultants or contractors) that can deal directly with problems on the front line. Hiring people with the clear objective AND deliverable of improving the onboard experience/staff, mechanical reliability, to cleaning out Beech Grove, Hialeah, and the Delaware shops of equipment that could be on the road. What's the deliverable and action plan and how is it funded to action that these hired folks oversee as part of their contingent contract (that I would say needs to be put in place). Running optimal economy and premium level cars to earn greater revenue, to produce greater ROI's, etc. would yield higher bonuses for C-Suite Management.

Why doesn't Amtrak C-Suite management challenge the status quo [MESS]? Because starting from the top, they are in it for short term and quick gain only, while you will find the front line and onboard folks that have been around for DECADES! Amtrak gave all their intellectual knowledgeable railroad personnel parachute packages from 2018 to 2022. DUMB! Amtrak had an opportunity to oust the LD train service during COVID and further curtail other service, much to the joy of Amtrak C-Suite, but they couldn't even pull that off!!! And they DID have an opportunity to make that case.......

All that said goes back to my original point - Amtrak C-Suite management, in my opinion, doesn't truly know how to protect or grow their bonuses. So I remain skeptic of this claim on bonuses. And if they are trying to protect it - they are sure being absolute fools in doing so. So I try not to go down that rabbit hole. I remain on the sidelines to watch this $h!+ Show at present. UGH!.  

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> restricted_speed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Doing that would require genuine desire and
> effort
> > on Amtrak's part. I'm pretty sure qualified
> pilots
> > would be required at additional cost. Let's not
> > forget that bonuses must be protected here.
> >
> > It has gotten way too easy for Amtrak to just
> > cancel trains and offer their "sincere
> apologies".
>
> Listen, I get the constant and outward bash on the
> "bonus protection" of C-Suite management - that
> they want to cut COSTS to preserve their bonuses.
> But by NO means am I saying it has validity.
> Frankly, I am not sure if Amtrak C-Suite
> management is really that smart, or really has
> that as a truly focused point. I say that because
> the inefficiencies of ops concerning Venture Cars,
> Viewliner Cars, and most importantly the constant
> breakdowns/cancellations/truncation of trains due
> to Chargers/ALC42s failures are a HUGE drain in
> Amtrak expense. Amtrak has to call in buses, call
> in freight locomotives to get assistance, etc.
>
> Simply put, are they that short-sighted to see
> that their band-aid approaches to stop the expense
> bleeding by the failed Sieman's product alone is
> blowing up their expenses MUCH more so than busing
> Amtrak 448/449 passengers!!! If Amtrak C-Suite
> Management thinks that curtailing the 448/449
> service is going to overcome and be cheaper than
> the constant flow of expenses POURED out to cover
> for the poor operation of the Sieman's product
> (and I am using that broadly - Sieman's Products),
> then they are really misled and dumber than a box
> of rocks.
>
> Amtrak loves to hire planners and consultants -
> for designing, equipment, stations, lounges, etc.
> How about hiring front line train operator
> (consultants or contractors) that can deal
> directly with problems on the front line. Hiring
> people with the clear objective AND deliverable of
> improving the onboard experience/staff, mechanical
> reliability, to cleaning out Beech Grove, Hialeah,
> and the Delaware shops of equipment that could be
> on the road. What's the deliverable and action
> plan and how is it funded to action that these
> hired folks oversee as part of their contingent
> contract (that I would say needs to be put in
> place). Running optimal economy and premium level
> cars to earn greater revenue, to produce greater
> ROI's, etc. would yield higher bonuses for C-Suite
> Management.
>
> Why doesn't Amtrak C-Suite management challenge
> the status quo ? Because starting from the top,
> they are in it for short term and quick gain only,
> while you will find the front line and onboard
> folks that have been around for DECADES! Amtrak
> gave all their intellectual knowledgeable railroad
> personnel parachute packages from 2018 to 2022.
> DUMB! Amtrak had an opportunity to oust the LD
> train service during COVID and further curtail
> other service, much to the joy of Amtrak C-Suite,
> but they couldn't even pull that off!!! And they
> DID have an opportunity to make that case.......
>
> All that said goes back to my original point -
> Amtrak C-Suite management, in my opinion, doesn't
> truly know how to protect or grow their bonuses.
> So I remain skeptic of this claim on bonuses. And
> if they are trying to protect it - they are sure
> being absolute fools in doing so. So I try not to
> go down that rabbit hole. I remain on the
> sidelines to watch this $h!+ Show at present.
> UGH!.  

Good points jp. I will agree with you that they are not that smart. With regard to bonuses, we will never know exactly how they work. And that is by design.

The fact that they are allegedly limiting inventory for 448/449 bookings so that only one bus (and one conductor) is required can just as likely be attributed to laziness. 

One thing is certain. Revenue is not an incentive. If it were, they would do everything possible to cover this service. They are not. From the outside looking in, it appears as if they couldn't care less.

Anybody in the area of that crossing or in Albany to actually verify 'the hole' and if there is any activity there?

As a 'frequent flyer' in 448/9 (and cancelled my June trip, no bus for me) the train has always been pretty well patronized to the point where getting a seat can be interesting.   And that's been with Worcester station all shot up for years, and the abysmally slow pace over to Springfield from Albany with the Berkshire routing and all the speed restrictions.  Once you get east of there you're moving along pretty well, but I'm sure the bus could beat it overall.

And they have been steadily upgrading that connection south to CSX, with the old jointed rail it was the roughest section of track on the entire trip, and about 70% had been upgraded to welded already, just for this movement, so again, this is kinda criminally questionable that they can't fill in a hole.  Lets see the hole, I might get more sympathetic.