Passenger Trains > Update: 448/449 Continue To Be A Single Bus

Just continuing to monitor this.

Amtrak continues to limit 448/449 to a single bus.

I'll bet the passengers can see outside of the bus window at least...they are usually clean.

restricted_speed Wrote:
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> Just continuing to monitor this.
>
> Amtrak continues to limit 448/449 to a single bus.

Also apparently the OBS Boston sleeper attendant jobs are being abolished.

I wouldn't be susprised at all if 448/449 never runs again. This is Penn Central 2.0.

Or, at most a coach train with a business class car.

Sharon Evans
Glen Allen, VA

I’m actually starting to grow weary of Amtrak. This stuff is ridiculous. It’s as if they really don’t want to be in this business.

Posted from iPhone

Chessie1963 Wrote:
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> I’m actually starting to grow weary of Amtrak.
> This stuff is ridiculous. It’s as if they really
> don’t want to be in this business.
>
> Posted from iPhone

They dont have any interest in running trains if even one excuse exists they can use to get out of it. Ive said this 100 times. 

Chessie1963 Wrote:
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> I’m actually starting to grow weary of Amtrak.
> This stuff is ridiculous. It’s as if they really
> don’t want to be in this business.
>
> Posted from iPhone

You are growing weary, I grew weary when I worked for Amtrak as a star performer years ago! Pathetic.

Not that I don't have issues with Amtrak policies and decisions, is it possible that one bus is all they really need at this time?  They are probably having to pay for the bustitution without any reimbursement from a host railroad.  And perhaps many persons like myself simply would avoid the bus and take another way if I couldn't do it via rail.  I mean if Amtrak were to operate 3 buses,(a local, an express and even a luxury express) to replace 448 & 449, would travelers fill them up?  We will probably never know and have to speculate forever.  But I do believe Amtrak has much bigger burdens and obstacles beyond operating only one bus.



 

Hearing that the "repair" on the Post Road is going to take till the end of the year - or something like that (no comment) - not surprised that positions are being cut back on the Boston section. That said, not sure why they are not just putting the consist in a typically LD configuration (all coaches upfront and all sleepers at the rear), plus running the Amfleet Diner Lite next to the Diner and OPEN between Albany and NYP to solve a decades old problem. It would allow some flexibility with the Silver Meteor train set (should it be needed) that also still gets serviced at NYP. There has to be a reason as to why they cutoff the "ole Boston section" of the Lake Shore at Albany-Rennsalear daily. Frankly, I'm also surprised that Amtrak has kept the onboard staffing of the Boston section (e.g. Sleeper Car Attendant) out of Boston and not concentrated out of Chicago. 

RNinRVR Wrote:
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> Or, at most a coach train with a business class
> car.

It's been done before. Why not do it again! UGH! I've actually been surprised about how busy the "Boston section" of the Lake Shore Limited actually is.......

Fact Check:

The full normal Lake Shore consist (including the Boston's sections 1 sleeper, lounge and 2 coaches) continues to run west of Albany, so the train's overall capacity and OBS staffing level has not been reduced!

As is typical for most long distance trains, the number of end point to end point passengers on the Lake Shore is quite small. The westbound boards large passenger counts at Utica, Syracuse, Rochester & Buffalo-Depew who are destined for Cleveland, Toledo, Elkhart and South Bend. And on any given trip there are many Amish travelers going between Utica & Elkhart!

The full consist can NOT currently go to New York Penn, as the train is turned being overnight at Penn Station (it's not going to Sunnyside Yard); the platforms available for NYS trains aren't long enough to accomodate the full consist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/25 09:19 by mbutte.

mbutte Wrote:
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> The full consist can NOT currently go to New York
> Penn, as the train is turned being overnight at
> Penn Station (it's not going to Sunnyside Yard);
> the platforms available for NYS trains aren't long
> enough to accomodate the full consist.

Thanks, I was wondering about that.

Chessie1963 Wrote:
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> I'll bet the passengers can see outside of the bus
> window at least...they are usually clean.
>
> restricted_speed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just continuing to monitor this.
> >
> > Amtrak continues to limit 448/449 to a single
> bus.

Yes, I rode the charter bus on that route last October. The bus was much cleaner inside and out, and in much better condition than my viewliner sleeping car on the Chicago to Albany portion.

Posted from iPhone

Hou74-76 Wrote:
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> Not that I don't have issues with Amtrak policies
> and decisions, is it possible that one bus is all
> they really need at this time?  

No. They are artificially restricting bookings. At first they had to run 2 or 3 buses each way daily until they were able to control things so only one busload of passengers are now able to book each day.

Amtrak isn't good at much, but they are very good at this sort of thing.

restricted_speed Wrote:
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> Also apparently the OBS Boston sleeper attendant
> jobs are being abolished.
>
> I wouldn't be susprised at all if 448/449 never
> runs again. This is Penn Central 2.0.

Does that mean they are moving 448/449 sleeper to a CHI-NYP operation?

Also when Boston take the OBS staffing for that job? I always thought it was a Chicago job.

Posted from Android

I don't fully understand when you say "it's not going to Sunnyside Yard" and instead
being turned overnight at NYP.  I would assume all long distance trains proceed to
Sunnyside to be washed, turned, cleaned, stocked and maintenance work.

The Lake Shore full consist is 12 cars, while the Silver Meteor is 11 cars.

What do you mean that "the platforms available for NYS(?) trains aren't long enough to
accomodate the full consist".  What is NYS compared to NYP?


mbutte Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The full consist can NOT currently go to New York
> Penn, as the train is turned being overnight at
> Penn Station (it's not going to Sunnyside Yard);
> the platforms available for NYS trains aren't long
> enough to accomodate the full consist.

jeff56 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't fully understand when you say "it's not going to Sunnyside Yard" and instead
> being turned overnight at NYP.  I would assume all long distance trains proceed to
> Sunnyside to be washed, turned, cleaned, stocked and maintenance work.
>
> The Lake Shore full consist is 12 cars, while the Silver Meteor is 11 cars.
>
> What do you mean that "the platforms available for NYS(?) trains aren't long enough to
> accomodate the full consist".  What is NYS compared to NYP?

The normal full (west of Albany) Lake Shore consist is 11 cars (5 coaches, 3 sleepers, 1 lounge, 1 diner, 1 baggage).

The normal 7-car New York section #48 (3 coaches, diner, 2 sleepers, baggage) heads south into New York Penn. These cars are then serviced & stocked on the platform at New York Penn. The train currently does NOT go through the East River tunnel to Sunnyside. The consist is NOT turned.

The next day's #49 departs New York Penn running backwards back to Albany-Rensselaer, where the New York consist is turned on the wye there & thus the entire train leaves Albany running forward.

Trains which enter New York Penn coming from the north (i.e. from Albany) via the Empire Connection tunnel can ONLY access tracks #5, 6, 7 & 8. The two platforms which serve these four tracks are not long enough to handle a 11 car consist. The Silver Meteor arrives & departs from higher numbered tracks which have longer platforms.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/25 14:58 by mbutte.

mbutte Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jeff56 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't fully understand when you say "it's
> not going to Sunnyside Yard" and instead
> > being turned overnight at NYP.  I would
> assume all long distance trains proceed to
> > Sunnyside to be washed, turned, cleaned,
> stocked and maintenance work.
> >
> > The Lake Shore full consist is 12 cars, while
> the Silver Meteor is 11 cars.
> >
> > What do you mean that "the platforms available
> for NYS(?) trains aren't long enough to
> > accomodate the full consist".  What is
> NYS compared to NYP?
>
> The normal full (west of Albany) Lake Shore
> consist is 11 cars (5 coaches, 3 sleepers, 1
> lounge, 1 diner, 1 baggage).
>
> The normal 7-car New York section #48 (3 coaches,
> diner, 2 sleepers, baggage) heads south into New
> York Penn. These cars are then serviced & stocked
> on the platform at New York Penn. The train
> currently does NOT go through the East River
> tunnel to Sunnyside. The consist is NOT turned.
>
> The next day's #49 departs New York Penn running
> backwards back to Albany-Rensselaer, where the New
> York consist is turned on the wye there & thus the
> entire train leaves Albany running forward.
>
> Trains which enter New York Penn coming from the
> north (i.e. from Albany) via the Empire Connection
> tunnel can ONLY access tracks #5, 6, 7 & 8. The
> two platforms which serve these four tracks are
> not long enough to handle a 11 car consist. The
> Silver Meteor arrives & departs from higher
> numbered tracks which have longer platforms.
>  

That makes sense, but I am REALLY surprised they are leaving the Lake Shore Limited consist on the platform - blocking up that platform - from 7 pm to 3:40 pm the next day. That's a near 24 hour tie-up. Or do they perhaps move it to one of the southern storage tracks that NJT trains would typically tie up at? NJT uses tracks typically uses tracks 1 through 12 in morning and afternoon rush hour, but they can go up higher than that of course. They are doing mechanical checks and all at the platform? I don't want to know how they rotate equipment in/out of the consist.....should that become necessary. That's gotta be a nightmare. 

EDIT - I had to come back to this - as much as this makes sense (from a fact check standpoing, and thank you for that), it's mind blowing that this is the practice at present. Was trying to think of alternatives, but this is a bit of a hard one.....So then there must be no passenger trains that come off the Empire Corridor going to Sunnyside Yard due to the East River tunnel project now underway.....Adirondack/Maple Leaf are combined, does the Ethan Allen Express train set now rotated among the Empire Corridor pool of trains with a bit more flexibility?   



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/25 15:29 by jp1822.

It cannot possibly be left at NYPS, tracks 5 to 8. They cannot sacrifice that capacity for 21 hours.

It runs to Sunnyside and back via Tunnel line 1 since 2 is closed. It does not loop in Sunnyside any longer.

Posted from Android

It cannot possibly be left at NYPS, tracks 5 to 8. They cannot sacrifice that capacity for 21 hours. When Amtrak is not present, NJT is. Some other Empire trains are topped and tailed and relay back in NYPS.

It runs to Sunnyside and back via Tunnel line 1 since 2 is closed. It does not loop in Sunnyside any longer. How they deal with a forward facing engine, I don't know

Posted from Android