Passenger Trains > NTSB recommends SEPTA withdraw entire Silverliner IV fleet

Pursuant to too many fires on SEPTA's Silverliner IVs and subsequent investigation, the
National Transportation Safety Board has recommended that the entire fleet be withdrawn from
service until a root cause has been determined.

Blame for the risk to passengers is placed on the outdated design of the Silverliner IV,
specifically the lack of a fire barrier between the undercarriage and the passenger
area; and lack of proper maintenance by SEPTA.


SEPTA: Railroad Investigation Report NTSB/RIR-25-12

Findings

1. The outdated design of Silverliner IV railcars, in combination with the Southeastern
Pennsylvania Transit Authority’s maintenance and operating practices, represents an
immediate and unacceptable safety risk because of the incidence and severity of
electrical fires that can spread to occupied compartments.

2. The Southeastern Pennsylvania Transit Authority’s current operating practices for the
Silverliner IV fleet are insufficient to protect passengers and crews because railcars
with electrical faults are not being identified and promptly removed from service.

3. The recurrence of fires despite the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transit Authority’s
attempted operational, maintenance, and engineering changes is consistent with
organizational factors preventing proposed risk mitigations from being effectively
deployed.

4. The risks posed by the Silverliner IV’s outdated design cannot be fully addressed
without an extensive fleet retrofit or replacement.

5. Operational, maintenance, and engineering changes undertaken by the
Southeastern Pennsylvania Transit Authority require ongoing monitoring to verify that
they are mitigating risks to passengers.


Recommendations

To the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transit Authority

Suspend operation of the Silverliner IV fleet until you have determined the
root causes of fires, developed and implemented a plan to address these
causes, and identified and corrected the organizational factors that have
prevented effective risk mitigations. (R-25-12) (Urgent)

Create an expedited procurement or retrofit schedule and seek funding
from appropriate sources as soon as possible to accelerate the
replacement of the Silverliner IV fleet or its retrofit to include modern
feedback systems and meet Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations Part 238
fire safety standards for new railcars. (R-25-13) (Urgent)

Pending replacement or retrofit of the Silverliner IV fleet, implement a plan
to monitor the success of your risk-mitigation approach to the Silverliner IV
fleet, including provisions for immediately removing the fleet from service
again if your mitigations fail to prevent fires. (R-25-14) (Urgent)

Complete report:

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/RIR-25-12.pdf

 

SEPTA is already stonewalling:

During a news conference on Wednesday, SEPTA GM Scott Sauer says the transit agency developed a comprehensive set of 40 mitigation measures in cooperation with the FRA and NTSB, which include additional notifications and safety checks, audible alarms for fault lights and personnel.

SEPTA GM urges Silverliner IV railcars are safe following safety warning

"Due to these efforts, we are confident that we can safely continue service with the Silverliner IV fleet," said Sauer.

New safety steps include in-person inspections for all trains going through the Center City stations and live video monitoring.

"We've been using the Silverliner IV less than the rest of the fleet, and we've instituted more frequent and thorough inspections," added Sauer.

Despite NTSB calling for the suspension of the Silverliner IV fleet until the root causes of the fires are identified, Sauer says he's confident the railcars are safe.

-WPVI

SEPTA just switched their capital budget money to cover operating cost as prescribed by the legislature.  Don't look for any money for replacements.  Sidelining all Silverliner IVs would require a hefty cut in service.  Yes it's a risk using them, but I will accept SEPTAs plan and continue to ride them as opposed to reduced service.

How many cars or percentage of the fleet does this affect? Seems like a pretty serious risk, but I assume this will make it hard to keep up services.

Nathan

Posted from iPhone

These cars operated for years without any problems. so Id say its more of a shoddy maintenance thing than a car defect.

Of course, as someone from Philly, who rode the MP54's , the Pioneer 3's and all the silverliners.....IDK what was wrong with the earlier silverliners that they couldnt be overhauled again.  Couldnt PCB rectifiers be replaced?   Im just asking.  I just rode all the older silverliners, and they all were fine. as far as im concerned. 

Just remember, the NTSB can only make a recommendation, they can not order anything and they have no enforcement power.

atsf121 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many cars or percentage of the fleet does this
> affect? Seems like a pretty serious risk, but I
> assume this will make it hard to keep up services.
>
>
> Nathan
=================================

SEPTA EMU fleet as built:

S-IV: 232
S-V: 120

Only source I could find says that only one S-IV had been retired prior to the current spate of fires. 
Not sure about that.

But the Silverliner IVs are more than half of SEPTA's fleet.  SEPTA will be continuing to operate them. 

The design deficiency that NTSB cites is due to the standards in effect when S-IV were built, fifty years ago. 
They did not require a fire barrier between underbody electrical equipment and the passenger area.  It is required
in current construction 


 



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/25 22:33 by GenePoon.

The NTSB can go to hell when it comes to any form of passenger rail. Their incompetent ruling led to the Talgo VIs being retired for “safety” after the I-5 crash.

"unacceptable safety risk" is a serious statement.  But it does have weight when the inevitable fire / collision etc occurs and injuries or deaths result.

Lawyers love evidence of prior problems and knowledge being handed to them on a silver platter.

I agree totally with Amtrak Midwest regarding the Talgo retirements. Unfortunately. Washington state's Department of Transportation had wanted to move on from Talgo for years before the Amtrak 501 wreck, plus I think it was eager, for a variety of reasons, to put into effect without argument every single recommendation the NTSB made following that wreck.

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just remember, the NTSB can only make a
> recommendation, they can not order anything and
> they have no enforcement power.

Good point

Posted from iPhone

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> atsf121 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How many cars or percentage of the fleet does
> this
> > affect? Seems like a pretty serious risk, but I
> > assume this will make it hard to keep up
> services.
> >
> >
> > Nathan
> =================================
>
> SEPTA EMU fleet as built:
>
> S-IV: 232
> S-V: 120
>
> Only source I could find says that only one S-IV
> had been retired prior to the current spate of
> fires. 
> Not sure about that.
>
> But the Silverliner IVs are more than half of
> SEPTA's fleet.  SEPTA will be continuing to
> operate them. 
>

Thanks Gene, that would really screw things up if they followed the NTSB recommendation. I don’t see how SEPTA could function without them.

Nathan

Posted from iPhone

The Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) issued an emergency order requiring the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA) to take corrective action.

FRA Emergency Order No. 34 includes more than 15 required actions SEPTA must take. These actions include operator and mechanical personnel training, installation of new thermal detectors, daily inspection regimes and a comprehensive, point-to-point inspection of every Silverliner IV railcar following an aggressive FRA-approved schedule. 

Copied from this press release: https://wwww.septa.org/news/ntsb-report-silverliner-iv-trains/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/25 18:53 by RuleG.

The Emergency Order might be a good contract opportunity for folks who are skilled in the areas cited.

It's good that the FRA is still on the job during the government shutdown.  They may be in the group required to work without pay during the furlough.