Passenger Trains > #5 AND #3 both having coach issues

#5, the westbound Zephyr, (12/8) was stopped for several hours at Burlington, Iowa due to "equipment adjustments on the rear of the train", which Amtrak later specified as involving a coach car. The train is now underway running 6 hours late. I don't know if they set a coach out or not.

#3, the westbound SW Chief, is in a worse situation. Amtrak says it is also making equipment adjustments involving a coach car, but they are in a full Service Disruption, and are motionless about an hour "west of Fort Madison, Iowa".

That's all I know as of 12:34 AM, 12/9. Any more info is appreciated!

Posted from Android

Tom Loftus
Omaha, NE



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/25 22:40 by OmahaTom.

Floridian out of Chicago same thing. Moving a coach to the rear of the train at Hammond. Amtrak info stated this.

Posted from Android

I don't know why it should take this long to do those moves, unless crew rest gets involved.  It reminds me of when the express initiative was on.  It took Amtrak forever to add cars to a train in Chicago.  In Wenatchee, Washington, BNSF regularly added refrigerator cars of fruit to the Empire Builder in a matter of minutes.

NPRocky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know why it should take this long to do
> those moves, 

I can imagine once the argument of the host railroad (telling Amtrak to set the car out) vs Amtrak (trying to tell the host to allow them to keep moving) has finally been settled, you're still out in the boonies trying to move an entire car worth of passengers and their luggage up the stairs, through a single door to the rest of the train, and then try and reseat them all can be quite a time consuming process. 

NPRocky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know why it should take this long to do
> those moves, unless crew rest gets involved. 

How often do road crews switch out cars? Aside from Denver and St Paul with private cars. 

They may try to get say stuck brakes to work, etc, is that 1 engineer territory?  Yesterday #5

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We'll train 3 and 5 cancelled now engine problems reported, on fb, summer diesel blend?   

41 was also was also having HEP issues that a friend on board told me involved a bad HEP cable in one of the coaches that required moving the coach around so did someone get 41 mixed up with 3? 5 got cancelled after hours of its own HEP problems and a friend on that say they were being put into a hotel. No word on if the locomotives were P42's or Chargers.

NPRocky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know why it should take this long to do
> those moves, unless crew rest gets involved.  It
> reminds me of when the express initiative was
> on.  It took Amtrak forever to add cars to a
> train in Chicago.  In Wenatchee, Washington, BNSF
> regularly added refrigerator cars of fruit to the
> Empire Builder in a matter of minutes.

Freight cars only need a brake pipe hookup, massenger cars have something like 4-6 different connectors and cutting a car out from the middle of a consist requires breaking and remaking two couplings with 5-7 inches of snow on the tracks when its 10-20o out.  

So just cancel the train in the middle of Iowa.

They're not even trying any more.

#3 got a bus or 2 perhaps, have to read up on it

restricted_speed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So just cancel the train in the middle of Iowa.
>
> They're not even trying any more.

Please, tell us what you would have done to fix the problem?
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/25 05:25 by mbrotzman.

Amtrak train 5, the California Zephyr, had locomotive issues and was cancelled at Ottumwa, Iowa, south of Des Moines, Iowa, on Tuesday, 9 December 2025.  No train 5 between Ottumwa, IA, and Emeryville, CA, on 9 and 10 Dec 2025.  Train 5 has disappeared from Train Tracker and likely will be picked up by Amtrak train 6 to return it to Chicago, IL, on 9 December 2025.

mbrotzman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> restricted_speed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So just cancel the train in the middle of Iowa.
> >
> > They're not even trying any more.
>
> Please, tell us what you would have done to fix
> the problem?

I'm seeing vague accounts of what happened. Some sort of problem with a coach car? And then after that a locomotive issue?

The bottom line is if you're serious about providing intercity service, you are prepared for things like this. Unfortunately perverse incentives have put Amtrak in the position it is currently in. They have cut costs to the point where the rolling stock and locomotives can simply not be relied on any more. And of course apparently there is no protect power available.

#5 runs with 2 locomotives. Did they both crap out? Unlikely. Is there protect power in Denver? Probably not. But there should be. So yeah it's easy to say "What would you do?" when you have hamstrung Amtrak to the point that any single problem that arises becomes a crisis.

You're essentially correct. You can't do anything, really. Just take the easy way out and annul the train. Well two trains actually, since this will automatically eliminate this equipment becoming #6.

I'm sorry but Amtrak is a joke at this point. And it pains me to say it.

What can be done is to first do emergent maintenance and then proactive maintenace to get the P42 Genesis locomotives running in a good state of repair. Too many of these locomotives are travelling around with overly dark smoke spewing out of the exhaust and caking the adjacent baggage car or Superliner car in black on the roof lines. That's completely preventable if Amtrak allocated proper funds to Beech Grove mechanics so they could do more work cleaning and working on the locomotives' engines etc. in thorough repair/maintenance that'd be one way to make a difference. Relying on the "teething" ALC42's from Siemens is not working out too well either.  

                  I had read long ago that making and breaking the electrical cables between Amtrak cars was to be done only by an eletrrician type person ( Union type rule ???   - don't cross the line ) therefore if true the train crew can't do that. In some really cold windy weather the conductor most likely is absolutely NOT dressed for that either. ( I worked 38 winters in oil field work and I am not warmed up yet. ) Irregardless, Amtrack is NOT taking care of the business any way, shape or form. If they were the conductor would not be in that situation. NOTHING is going to be done about these breakdowns. Bonus money comes before ANYTHING and cost cutting prior to that so the bonuses continue to fly. The Amtrak management does not give one rats ass about the customers nor if their trains run. It has been this way for so long this is what they see as normal and it works for THEM.
                 And to help those fools along, they will never get another dollar from us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/25 06:13 by dcfbalcoS1.

dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>                   I had read long ago
> that making and breaking the electrical cables
> between Amtrak cars was to be done only by an
> eletrrician type person ( Union type rule ??? 
>  - don't cross the line ) therefore if true the
> train crew can't do that. In some really cold
> windy weather the conductor most likely is
> absolutely NOT dressed for that either. ( I worked
> 38 winters in oil field work and I am not warmed
> up yet. ) Irregardless, Amtrack is NOT taking care
> of the business any way, shape or form. If they
> were the conductor would not be in that situation.
> NOTHING is going to be done about these
> breakdowns. Bonus money comes before ANYTHING and
> cost cutting prior to that so the bonuses continue
> to fly. The Amtrak management does not give one
> rats ass about the customers nor if their trains
> run. It has been this way for so long this is what
> they see as normal and it works for THEM.
>                  And to help those fools
> along, they will never get another dollar from us.

On the road the road crew is fully empowered to make connections. The eletrrician job only applies to terminals and yards.

480 cables become rebar in cold weather. Snow getting blown up at 80 makes everything an ice sculpture. Then you need to use a spur switch that MoW hasn't touched for weeks and is also an ice sculpture. A thirty minute move can take hours as a result.

What also takes hours is finding someone to make a decision on trying to apply a fix setting or something out, it's like playing whack-a-mole between Wilmington, Chicago, and whatever local supervision gets the problem in their lap. Quickly becomes a too-many-cooks problem. Throw in the host road getting hot about tying up a mainline for hours, passengers getting upset, and the conductor's cell that rings constantly, and it becomes a snake pit. 

Winter brings all the failures points to the surface, sometimes in multiple. Crews used to only scanning tickets, mechanical that can't diagnose a paper cut over the fone, CNOC in Wilmington unconcerned about anything west of Harrisburg.  

Fail to plan, plan to fail.

#3-12/08/25 4:00pm EST
_ Delay Notification: As of 2:59 PM CT Train 3 is currently
_ stopped south of Chicago (CHI) while the crew inspects the
_ locomotive. Our crews are working diligently to resume travel
_ as quickly as possible.
_
_ 12/08/25 4:35pm EST
_ Travel Update: As of 3:32 PM CT Train 3 remains stopped
_ south of Chicago (CHI) while the crew conducts an ongoing
_ locomotive assessment.
_
_ 12/08/25 5:07pm EST
_ Travel Resumption: As of 4:05 PM CT Train 3 has resumed
_ service and is currently operating approximately 1 hour
_ and 25 minutes late south of Chicago (CHI).
_
_ 12/08/25 10:30pm EST
_ Mechanical Assessment: As of 9:11 PM CT Train 3 is stopped
_ west of Fort Madison (FMD) due to an equipment adjustments
_ with a coach car.
_
_ 12/08/25 11:26pm EST
_ Travel Update: As of 10:24 PM CT Train 3 remains stopped
_ west of Fort Madison (FMD) due to equipment adjustments
_ which will result in a lengthy delay.
_
_ 12/08/25 11:36pm EST
_ Travel Update: As of 9:24 PM MT Train 3 remains stopped
_ west of Fort Madison (FMD) due to equipment adjustments
_ which will result in a lengthy delay.
_
_ 12/09/25 2:34am EST
_ Travel Update: As of 1:33 AM CT Train 3 remains stopped
_ due to a mechanical assessment and readjustments of the
_ trains consists.
_
_ 12/09/25 2:41am EST
_ Travel Update: As of 12:33 AM MT Train 3 remains stopped
_ due to a mechanical assessment and readjustments of the
_ trains consists.
_
_ 12/09/25 3:42am EST
_ Travel Update: As of 2:39 AM CT Train 3 will advance to
_ La Plata (LAP) to be further evaluated.
_
_ 12/09/25 4:08am EST
_ Travel Update: As of 1:39 AM MT Train 3 will advance to
_ La Plata (LAP) to be further evaluated. talk is busess went to la plate, bnsf loco added to KC sans pax?

5#
12/08/25 5:04pm EST
_ Mechanical Assessment: As of 3:57 PM CT Train 5 is currently
_ stopped west of Naperville (NPV) while the crew inspects
_ the locomotive. Our crews are working diligently to resume
_ travel as quickly as possible.
_
_ 12/08/25 5:49pm EST
_ Service Resumption: As of 4:47 PM CT Train 5 has resumed
_ and is currently operating approx. with a 1-hour delay and
_ might have a slight delay incur in Mendota (MDT) due to
_ local municipal officials working in the station.
_
_ 12/08/25 8:33pm EST
_ Mechanical Assessment: As of 7:32 PM CT Train 5 is stopped
_ west of Galesburg (GBB) due to an equipment adjustments
_ with a coach car.
_
_ 12/08/25 9:05pm EST
_ Travel Update: As of 8:03 PM CT Train 5 has advanced to
_ Burlington (BRL) to further evaluate the coach car and make
_ the necessary adjustments.
_
_ 12/08/25 10:50pm EST
_ Travel Update: As of 9:49 PM CT Train 5 continues to be
_ stopped at Burlington (BRL) due to equipment adjustments
_ to the rear of the train.
_
_ 12/08/25 11:46pm EST
_ Travel Update: As of 10:44 PM CT Train 5 continues to be
_ delayed at Burlington (BRL) due to equipment adjustments.
_
_ 12/09/25 12:35am EST
_ Service Resumption: As of 11:32 PM CT Train 5 has resumed
_ travel operating approximately 3 hours and 15 minutes late.
_
_ 12/09/25 12:51am EST
_ Correction: As of 11:48 PM CT Train 5 has resumed travel
_ operating approximately 5 hours and 50 minutes late.
_
_ 12/09/25 3:49am EST
_ Mechanical Assessment: As of 2:00 AM CT Train 5 is stopped
_ west of Ottumwa (OTM).
_
_ 12/09/25 4:27am EST
_ tinerary Change: As of 3:26 AM CT Due to engine failure
_ Train 5 which departed Chicago (CHI) on 12/8 is now canceled
_ between Ottumwa (OTM) and Emeryville (EMY).
_
_ 12/09/25 4:33am EST
_ Itinerary Change: As of 3:31 AM CT Due to engine failure
_ Train 5 which departed Chicago (CHI) on 12/8 is now canceled
_ between Ottumwa (OTM) and Emeryville (EMY).

OmahaTom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> #3, the westbound SW Chief, is in a worse
> situation. Amtrak says it is also making equipment
> adjustments involving a coach car, but they are in
> a full Service Disruption, and are motionless
> about an hour "west of Fort Madison, Iowa".
>
> That's all I know as of 12:34 AM, 12/9. Any more
> info is appreciated!
>
> Posted from Android

From the LAP cam #3 arrived at 03:07 and departed with a BNSF lead at 08:37 with a BNSF lead. Apparently there were some passengers seen on camera getting on to the rear coach car. Somewhere in between school busses came in and picked up the passengers. A new train crew also had to be brought in get the train moving once again. Understanding is the train was going to KCY.

mbrotzman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >                   I had read long ago
> > that making and breaking the electrical cables
> > between Amtrak cars was to be done only by an
> > eletrrician type person ( Union type rule ??? 
> >  - don't cross the line ) therefore if true
> the
> > train crew can't do that. In some really cold
> > windy weather the conductor most likely is
> > absolutely NOT dressed for that either. ( I
> worked
> > 38 winters in oil field work and I am not
> warmed
> > up yet. ) Irregardless, Amtrack is NOT taking
> care
> > of the business any way, shape or form. If they
> > were the conductor would not be in that
> situation.
> > NOTHING is going to be done about these
> > breakdowns. Bonus money comes before ANYTHING
> and
> > cost cutting prior to that so the bonuses
> continue
> > to fly. The Amtrak management does not give one
> > rats ass about the customers nor if their
> trains
> > run. It has been this way for so long this is
> what
> > they see as normal and it works for THEM.
> >                  And to help those
> fools
> > along, they will never get another dollar from
> us.
>
> On the road the road crew is fully empowered to
> make connections. The eletrrician job only applies
> to terminals and yards.

After Glenview, Ill stop on the westbound Empire Builder Train #7/27, we grounded from about 79 mph to 0 mph and lost HEP. Conductor immediately came on the PA and said that the cables had come disconnected between the locomotive and the baggage car and we'd be on our way in a few minutes after the "cables" were re-connected. That happened on about two other trains also I've been on recently - one being another Empire Builder in roughly the same area, ironically. I thought for sure we would be dead in the water, but there was hope! Actually there was a fourth incident on train #41 just hours after it left Chicago - full speed to emergency stop actually while dinner in the Diner was trying to be served. We did get our food before the HEP was lost, but only us and another table got their food and it was a VERY LATE dinner in the process.