Passenger Trains > Empire Builder Cancellations - We Sincerely Apologize

Itinerary Change: As of 10:25 AM CT, Due to inclement weather conditions, Train 7 is canceled between Chicago (CHI) and Seattle King Street (SEA). We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Itinerary Change: As of 8:26 AM PT, Due to inclement weather conditions, Train 8 is canceled between Seattle King Street (SEA) and Chicago (CHI). We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Must be due to wind forecasts.  I live near Sandpoint ID, and we have high wind warnings from National Weather Service.  Similar warnings for Whitefish MT.  To the west, there are both high wind and blizzard warnings.

Why can't they run CHI -MSP ?

maybe some CZ  wind delays thurs?

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Why can't they run CHI -MSP ?

That takes too much work and planning (sarcasm). Would cut today's 7 behind the diner and cut the rear sleeper off. That makes a coach, lounge, coach and coach-bag. Stick an engine on each end. The train is sitting here right now. I remember the old days when they would run an 807/808 stub train. 

dan Wrote:
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> maybe some CZ  wind delays thurs?

I think they are south of most of the weather.

sethamtrak Wrote:
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> That takes too much work and planning (sarcasm).

That's actually exactly correct. Doing something like that requires effort. And there is no incentive within Amtrak to do anything like that. It's FAR easier to just cancel the train. There are no ramifications for doing so, and it does not affect bonuses.

For all I know it may actually boost bonuses.

sethamtrak Wrote:
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> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why can't they run CHI -MSP ?
>
> That takes too much work and planning (sarcasm).
> Would cut today's 7 behind the diner and cut the
> rear sleeper off. That makes a coach, lounge,
> coach and coach-bag. Stick an engine on each end.
> The train is sitting here right now. I remember
> the old days when they would run an 807/808 stub
> train. 

They also could have simply just taken Portland section's 4 cars and called it a day, No big deal if the sleeper deadheaded,. 

sethamtrak Wrote:
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> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why can't they run CHI -MSP ?
>
> That takes too much work and planning (sarcasm).
> Would cut today's 7 behind the diner and cut the
> rear sleeper off. That makes a coach, lounge,
> coach and coach-bag. Stick an engine on each end.
> The train is sitting here right now. I remember
> the old days when they would run an 807/808 stub
> train. 

That's the minimum that should be operating, and it could have been planned. The eastern and western ends of the route should be operating, not just a full blanket and outright cancelling. Ideally, although this would take logistics, A train from North Dakota to Chicago on the east end, and Whitefish, MT to Seattle on the west end. I do see that Whitefish is under high wind warnings, so I can't make a direct evaluation on that. But Whitefish, MT to Seattle/Portland on the west end (or even Spokane, WA) should NOT be ignored. There's a descent amount of traffic here. The Empire Builder had top shelf for carrying the largest amount of LD travellers per year. Cancellations, lack of operating stub trains, and reduced consists/capacity has led to its decline and passenger reliability perception. Just adding context! Don't believe it! Go ride the Empire Builder and see for yourself. I am on this train REGULARLY....... 

sf1010 Wrote:
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> dan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > maybe some CZ  wind delays thurs?
>
> I think they are south of most of the weather.

calling for high winds in north eastern colorado for a good part if not a lot of the day tommorrow,  (fire danger warnings are out, and near Yuma colo there has been a arsonist that goes out on these days) no precip on the plains, but in years past the winds get so bad they have held stationary for hours in colorado and nebr, even just traverse the windy area at big ten some amtracks have been held for 7+hours 35 miles from denver

Have not looked at the map but perhaps a low will be dropping down,  empire builder route to CZ territory even if it  is dry-trouble.  SO the CZ 5 hopefully will make as far denver, leave denver before it erupts, leaving 6 at the most risk here.

I get the sentiment about running an 807/808 but... we have the Borealis now. To that end running a baby builder to MSP isn't totally necessary anymore. Granted more capacity is good but I've gotten a sense that the Borealis has captured a large share of the CHI-MKE-MSP local market anyway.

We have blizzard warnings in the Cascades tonight, especially for Stevens Pass, where the Empire Builder goes, but Amtrak can't keep operating this way. It's going to have little credibility left if this continues. I wonder if freight rail shippers are enduring these same issues. If they are, it's even harder to accept the idea that railroads can ever be "truck-competitive." 

NPRocky Wrote:
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> We have blizzard warnings in the Cascades tonight,
> especially for Stevens Pass, where the Empire
> Builder goes, but Amtrak can't keep operating this
> way. It's going to have little credibility left if
> this continues. I wonder if freight rail shippers
> are enduring these same issues. If they are, it's
> even harder to accept the idea that railroads can
> ever be "truck-competitive." 

Go watch a few episodes of "Highway through Hell" sometime, it's a pretty good hint on how today's truckers handle winter weather in the mountains. 
Hint - they don't handle it well at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/26 18:52 by PHall.

PHall Wrote:
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> NPRocky Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We have blizzard warnings in the Cascades
> tonight,
> > especially for Stevens Pass, where the Empire
> > Builder goes, but Amtrak can't keep operating
> this
> > way. It's going to have little credibility left
> if
> > this continues. I wonder if freight rail
> shippers
> > are enduring these same issues. If they are,
> it's
> > even harder to accept the idea that railroads
> can
> > ever be "truck-competitive." 
>
> Go watch a few episodes of "Highway through Hell"
> sometime, it's a pretty good hint on how today's
> truckers handle winter weather in the
> mountains. 
> Hint - they don't handle it well at all.

The show's theme is trucking disasters.  I'm not sure the sample they broadcast is statistically valid.

No one likes to see cancellations but some weather events are beyond humans control.
Consider the revenue picture of running just western and eastern "stub" trains.
My guess is a majority of the passengers on the cancelled trains are going long distance.
Without their revenue the stub trains would lose much revenue making them very uneconomic.
i think it was the right decision to cancel.

Gotta love Sandpoint Idaho in the middle of the night.
 

---

love to live there!

To me a lot of the problem is that the U.S. has come to worrying too much about revenues and costs and not enough about getting the job done.  As for trucking in the snow, to me, the Washington state Department of Transportation has a habit of keeping its mountain passes open in snow too long, until there are waves of traffic crashes, then belatedly shutting the passes down.  What's so frustrating for railroading is that both the Great Northern and Northern Pacific used to beat these problems over the Cascades regularly, perhaps with difficulty at times, but they won and got the traffic through.

Why on earth would you break up the Builder consist to run part of it CHI-MSP? Plenty of seats available on the 1340 tomorrow (Fri Mar 13th).

agitator Wrote:
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> Why on earth would you break up the Builder
> consist to run part of it CHI-MSP? Plenty of seats
> available on the 1340 tomorrow (Fri Mar 13th).

I already said why on the other thread. "Plenty of seats" does not mean all can be accomodated on 1333 & 1340. The EB and Borealis run hours apart. Sounds like you work for CNOC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/26 10:28 by joemvcnj.