Passenger Trains > 317(09) - More Indiana Delays

Today's #317 has been a posterchild for a bad week of railroad on CSX between Indianapolis and Lafayette. Today's train has outdone the record set by 317(02) that took 5 hours to make the run from Indy to Lafayette. See: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,1049918

Today's 317 took over 6 hours! And the last report had freight train interference continuing north of Lafayette. Now reporting by Dyer over 5 hours late.

Over the past week the combined delays of 317 and 51 have delayed passengers more than 8 hours between Indianapolis and Lafayette; thats only 1 train per day doing that!

CSX is a F&$%ing joke. When I rode the Cardinal from Cincy to Chicago last summer, CSX had a mile-long line of autoracks stored on the platform track at their Queensgate yard in Cincy. Train time came and passed, and the autoracks didn't move. Finally, the Cardinal calls up from the other side of the Ohio asks for a routing into the platform, and CSXT throws up its hands and says "OOPS! your arrival has been scheduled the same way for 6 months, you always use the same track on the same days and roughly the same times, but we couldn't manage to open a spot for you! Now that you're here and waiting, we'll start rounding up some power, send it down, pull the autoracks out of the way, and give you your routing." It only took them about an hour to pull this off. The next morning, as we plodded hopelessly late along the Monon, we could only reach track speed for about a minute at a time. Anytime we got a green signal, we ALWAYS had to come back down to 10 mph and wait for a train to clear out, finish working, or for the DISPATCHER to give us the #$&@! SIGNAL.

In November, the Hoosier State carried a total of 1541 passengers, earning it the lowest rank among Amtrak's routes, but up a few points from the 1495 carried in Nov. 2004. Revenue was only $31,189.

With 34 trains scheduled for the month on this quadweekly service, 317/318 each carried an average of 45 passengers.

Considering it is a single coach train, 45 seems like a reasonable number. Of course a lounge car, muliple coaches, a faster schedule usually has positive impacts on ridership.

I guess we won't be waiting for a ridership increase with service like we saw today. Amtrak's not going to show any interest in this train without state financial support. That isn't going to happen. And with the type of on-time performance we have come to expect, I guess we will just stay on life support.

317 arrived Chicago 4 hr and 40 civilized minutes late....

I haven't been keeping an eye on things, but these delays could be caused by the Q121 reroutes off the C&EI. They've been running Q121 down the Monon to Greencastle since the Momence wreck.

Of course, a more convenient schedule for passengers would also have a positive impact on ridership. It leaves a bit early from Indy for many folks.

Of course the JAMES WHITCOMB RILEY made the Cinci to Chi run in 5.5 hours total. Test train of RDC cars in 1952 ran Cinci to Chi in 3:44!!!! Really. I can introduce you to a guy who was on it. Have we have gone backwards as a nation. Bodes poorly for my 12/31 trip on 51.

In 1978, when I first became interested in Amtrak, the San Joaquin service consisted of a single daily roundtrip which at some point operated with a locomotive, 84-seat Amcoach, and an Amcafe. Amtrak at one point announced plans to go to quad-weekly operation. Ridership was around 54 passengers a trip.

Today, the route has 6 daily roundtrips (12 trains total) and carried around 70,000 passengers in November 2005, generating revenues almost as much as the Coast Starlight. That's about 200 passengers for each of the 12 runs.

Imagine what Indiana could have with a similar effort. It's an outrage to have to put up with the service they offer you.

They ran a test train of RDCs on the NYC between Cincy and Chicago? Interesting!

Amen to the poster that said "CSX is a flippin' joke".

Last year I rode the Hoosier State to CHI and experienced
mystery stops, bumpy track, and a downright rude conductor,
who at the start of the trip, let all of us on the train
know what the rules were on 'muy' train, in a loud, nasal,
voice.

I'd personally like to see a better CHI/IND service, but
with the current infrastructure and public attitude toward
taking the train, it's not going to happen soon.

The concerns to the average Indiana resident are the loss
of jobs and the property tax hikes, among others. Until
those things change, the focus on public/regional transport
will be a non-issue.

MF

I took 317 and 318 up and back in mid-October and had a very pleasant trip. Left Indy right on time. Had to meet Q643 at Surrey, which delayed us some, but still not bad. Got stuck by UP near Dolton, however, which caused us to arrive at CUS an hour late. Crew was same up and back; very friendly and funny. Let everyone know what was going on and made no secret of their disdain about the way UP treated us. The trip home was uneventful. On-time departure from CUS. No major delays en route. Arrived in Indy one minute late. Several cars were added to the consist for ferrying to Beech Grove.

I won't say the track was glass-smooth, but I'm not sure you're going to find that anywhere enymore. Took the SW Chief in the summer, and there were plenty of rough spots, although we went a lot faster most of the time.

Sidenote: 317/318 were using the infamous F59PHI 467 (is that the right number?). No problems, however.

Here's a question: When we met Q643 (both on this trip and another trip we made a few years back), we pulled into Surrey, then had to back out. Why? Just wondering.

Kim

KimHeusel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a question: When we met Q643 (both on this
> trip and another trip we made a few years back),
> we pulled into Surrey, then had to back out. Why?
> Just wondering.

I believe the sidings are in bad enough shape that they don't want Amtrak
to run thru the them, so they have him pull past and back in to meet
trains.

CSX4617 pretty much hit the nail on the head; here in the exact wording from the CSX Chicago Division Bulletin General Order:

AMTRAK OPERATION THROUGH SIDINGS

AMTRAK TRAINS OPERATING ON THE MONON SUMBHDIVISION WILL NOT OPERATE
THROUGH PASSING SIDINGS ACCOUNT TRACK CONDITIONS. WHEN IT IS
NECESSARY TO MEET MANIFEST FREIGHT TRAINS AND BECAUSE OF SIDING
LENGTH, AMTRAK MUST TAKE SIDING, AMTRAK WILL TAKE THE SIDING
TO CLEAR THE MAIN TRACK ONLY. AFTER THE MEET IS COMPLETE, AMTRAK
WILL REVERSE OUT OF THE SIDING AND PROCEED.

Amtrak encounters substantial delays every time it meets a CSX train due to operating rule issues that arise. The Monon Sub is controlled by DTC Blocks with ABS Signals. The passenger train must get the DTC Block in the reverse direction behind the CSX train either after it clears two ABS Blocks or also getting permission by the non-number plated signals at the ends of the sidings. After this move, it then needs to get block authority to proceed in the normal direction. A meet that might take 10 minutes if the train could operate thru the siding takes in excess of 45 minutes to comply with CSX operating rules. Let’s not forget this also nullifies use of the spring switches that could expedite operations!

What the General Bulletin DOESN'T say is that freight trains (including Key Trains) are prohibited from using sidings with said "track conditions". So we can have a 8000 ft Key Train (Key Trains transport Hazardous Materials) take and use the same siding that we prohibit Amtrak from using! And this operation does happen on a daily basis. Amtrak is aware of the falicy of this bulletin but does not or is unable to persuade CSX of it's absurdity.

The State of Good Repair applies to CSX, too!

Man, Amtrak really changed on this compared to back when CLaytor was in and there were numerous occassions when Amtrak got on freight railroads on track condition and/or lousy dispatching in most rail mags!