Passenger Trains > VIA Rail Heavyweight Passenger Cars

I remember seeing at sometime photos of VIA Trains with Heavyweight Passenger cars in them which I beleived were exCN rebuilt heavyweight cars. Can anyone tell me about the types and numbers of cars and how long they lasted in VIA service?
Cheers,
Nick

NGotwalt Wrote:
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> I remember seeing at sometime photos of VIA Trains
> with Heavyweight Passenger cars in them which I
> beleived were exCN rebuilt heavyweight cars. Can
> anyone tell me about the types and numbers of cars
> and how long they lasted in VIA service?
> Cheers,
> Nick

There were several series of various car types. Can you narrow it down?

Bob

I can only add a bit of info on this, and will lead the rest for other members to clarify or add onto.

The main thing that I know is that VIA opted to rebuild the Canadian Pacific fleet of Budd stainless steel cars it inherited. This fleet rebuild was done in the early 1990s, including converting them to HEP, rather than steam heat etc. This was also the time that VIA's rail routes were greatly reduced and government subsidies reduced (i.e. CP route abandoned across Canada in favor of the CN route, Atlantic services cut etc.). Thus these pressure necessitated the ex-CN cars surplus, as VIA was forced to operate a smaller network with less frequency and $$ from the government. So investment was made in the ex-CP equipment and re-focus on routes VIA would operate.

As far as I know, the ex-CN cars were not chosen for rebuilding and conversion to HEP - by VIA. Rather, as I have understood over the years and on my travels on VIA, many of the ex-CN cars VIA inherited were sold off to Rocky Mountaineer (at bargain based prices), and then Rocky Mountaineer rebuilt them for their services - i.e. the Red Leaf single coach class I believe. Then Rocky Mountaineer supplemented these coaches with their bi-level Gold Lead domes.

I think VIA held onto some of the old ex-CN cars for a period of time for their Hudson Bay route - but this route eventually got the former CP rail cars, or Heritage cars VIA rebuilt leased/bought(?) from Amtrak.

It's worth noting that VIA did buy up some Amtrak Heritage equipment, as it went up for sale - Amtrak was looking to get rid of its Heritage equipment and VIA snatched some of it up. This included coaches, domes, diners etc. Some of the former Amtrak Heritage equipment bought by VIA was either rebuilt with HEP, used for parts, or stored (and some subsequently sold off I think).

Other ex-CN coach cars seem to be at various RR museums. Not sure what happened to the ex-CN sleepers though.

VIA continues to maintain their 50+ year old CP stainless steel Budd equipment for their flagship Canadian train. Skyline Domes and the famous Park Car (Bullet Lounge and Dome) included. I'd opt to take this equipment over most of Amtrak's long distance equipment any day.

Some of the former CP coaches (and perhaps rebuilt Amtrak Heritage coaches purchased) also are found on VIA's eastern corridor (Windsor-Toronto-Ottawa-Quebec), supplemented by VIA's purchase of LRC coaches and the recent Renaissance equipment. Renaissance equipment is operated largely on the Ocean (sleepers, diner, lounge cars) and the Montreal and Toronto corridor.

Even though the Ocean has converted to Renaissance long distance equipment it still occasionally runs with the CP Budd stainless steel equipment, as the Renaissance cars are scheduled for maintenance. The Chaleur (running in the East Coast) is still run with CP Budd stainless steel equipment - Skyline Dome, sleepers and all.

So does VIA have extra equipment now that it has its Renaissance fleet, the ex-CP Budd stainless steel cars, and the LRC cars - YES! Time will tell if this extra equipment is just used to augment the Canadian train or VIA tries to launch new routes - as is always rumored!

VIA ran heavyweight coaches on the "Camper's Special", several heavyweight combines on mixed train services across the Dominion and heavyweight lounge cars on the east coast trains before the HEP program started.

I'm off to New Haven,CT but will check this thread when I return on Tuesday. I will try to answer any more specific questions at that time should they appear.

Gerry Gaugl,
Ottawa ON

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can only add a bit of info on this, and will
> lead the rest for other members to clarify or add
> onto.
>
> The main thing that I know is that VIA opted to
> rebuild the Canadian Pacific fleet of Budd
> stainless steel cars it inherited. This fleet
> rebuild was done in the early 1990s, including
> converting them to HEP, rather than steam heat
> etc. This was also the time that VIA's rail routes
> were greatly reduced and government subsidies
> reduced (i.e. CP route abandoned across Canada in
> favor of the CN route, Atlantic services cut
> etc.). Thus these pressure necessitated the ex-CN
> cars surplus, as VIA was forced to operate a
> smaller network with less frequency and $$ from
> the government. So investment was made in the
> ex-CP equipment and re-focus on routes VIA would
> operate.
>

jp1822 gave an excellent reply which seems to relate to the ex-CN Lightweight VIA car fleet that was largely built by CCF in 1954. However, the poster is looking for information on the VIA Heavyweight cars.

Bob

Only recently by reviewing material posted elsewhere, have I learned from where Canadian National got the name of a Heavyweight Lounge Car, Qu'appelle, they dolled over as part of the Red White and Blue initiative.

It sure seemed strange to note a car with ice air conditioning yet having an "oh so sixties' false ceiling and otherwise a "Doctor's office motiff' than that of a railroad car built during the 20's.

Such was in consist of #5 "Panorama" that I rode Saskatoon to Vancouver during June 1965. The intent was to ride Winnipeg to Vancouver, but GN's Winnipeg Ltd from Mpls was late and hence a misconnect. I arranged a YWG-YXE "catch up flight" on an Air Canada Vickers Viscount. If there ever was a commercial aircraft designed for "flightseeing', that was it. During the flight, I doubt if it ever was higher than FL14, but I still missed viewing the apparently very impressive Qu'appelle Valley for which that Lounge car I noted was named..

Even if I tend to be of the persuasion "what's the difference between a wheatfield be it North or South of the 49th?". I guess I missed something from the air thatI would have seen in daylight from the rails. Apparently, it took me forty years to find out such be the case.

Lest airfans here are curious about a European designed aircraft that was in service with only one US carrier - Capital and, as successor, United (and lest the Moderator choose to kill without disturbing the related material I submitted above) here is a photo of a Vickers Viscount.

Viscount

I trust you will agree this aircraft was "it" for Flightseeing.

Well I don't know how to narrow it down when it comes to the heavyweights, I just remeber seeing a photo here and there of various cars. Were there any sleeping cars? I assume from several posts that there were coaches and coach-baggage cars. I am looking for a basic overview here. Thanks for all your help thus far.
Cheers,
Nick

Both the CN and CP had heavyweight equipment assigned during the 60's to their transcontinental trains. The CN only ordered enough lightweight equipment during the '50's to "make a dent' in their equipment needs - the Lounge Car I noted earlier in the topic is indicative of that. "Hand me downs' acquired from US roads for the Red White Blue initiative alleviated CN's lightweight shortage, but I found that the Tourist Class Sleepers remained heavyweights through the '60's.

In all fairness to the CN, it should be noted that many of their heavyweights were "modernized" to the extent that they were remodeled with larger windows and rounded roofs to replace the clestory design. However, they did retain ice air conditioning and possibly even friction bearings.

Even the CP Canadian had heavyweight Tourist Sleepers in the consist. However, the CP painted them in "platinum mist' so they had at least on the exterior a "faux' stainless look. They were placed at the head so likely the carriage trade riding in the First Class sleepers were unaware there were heavyweights in their train.

The CP's second transcontinental train, The Dominion, was a "supply and demand' equipment assignment. During the peak travel months, its consist was Burgundy Red heavyweight equipment, but during off peak periods, the lightweight Budd equipment would be assigned in part to that train as well. Even "Park" obs would end up in Donimion's consists on occasion.

GBNorman Wrote:
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> Even the CP Canadian had heavyweight Tourist
> Sleepers in the consist. However, the CP painted
> them in "platinum mist' so they had at least on
> the exterior a "faux' stainless look. They were
> placed at the head so likely the carriage trade
> riding in the First Class sleepers were unaware
> there were heavyweights in their train.
>


These "U-class" tourist sleepers had 1/32" stainless steel sheets applied to their sides. The CPR had ordered the stainless steel fluting from Budd along with cars for The Canadian. By 1968 all the U-class cars had been scrapped.

The CPR did have a 12-1 sleeper painted in "platinum mist" which I was able to photograph at "the Glen" in Montreal. The Travers was used on the "Atlantic Ltd" until the early 70's. This car now bears it's original name and paint. The "Somerset" resides at the Canadian Museum of Travel, Cranbrook, BC.

Gerry Gaugl,
Ottawa ON

In 1987 riding the Chaleus to Gaspe, they were still using some ice air conditioning cars. I was totally stunned that such equipment still existed. We stopped at Campbellton or Matapedia and the side doors beneath the cars were opened. Large flat sheets of ice were inserted beneath the car body. A fan blew over the ice and brought the cool air to the car body.

Given the many a/c failures on Amtrak, I found the ice a/c to be a "refreshing" and "cool" change. A good low tech system.

"It's worth noting that VIA did buy up some Amtrak Heritage equipment, as it went up for sale - Amtrak was looking to get rid of its Heritage equipment and VIA snatched some of it up. This included coaches, domes, diners etc. Some of the former Amtrak Heritage equipment bought by VIA was either rebuilt with HEP, used for parts, or stored (and some subsequently sold off I think)."

VIA bought 8 domes - 2 retired/stored by Amtrak, 3 retired/sold to private partys and then sold to VIA, and 3 that were never owned by Amtrak. All 8 have been resold to private US owners.

NGotwalt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remember seeing at sometime photos of VIA Trains
> with Heavyweight Passenger cars in them which I
> beleived were exCN rebuilt heavyweight cars. Can
> anyone tell me about the types and numbers of cars
> and how long they lasted in VIA service?
> Cheers,
> Nick
Both CN and CP rebuilt heavyweight cars, though I believe CN made MUCH more extensive use of such cars. In the 60's, during those heady Red, White, and Blue days, I rode the Super Continental many times, and often the consist would be near one half heavyweights, usually including all diners and lounges, and many of the sleepers, both section and all room types, if memory serves. Of course there were HW coaches and headend cars as well. From the inside it was difficult to tell these were rebuilds, they were 60's "modern", but nicely done, to me. AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

Doesn't VIA still own some heavyweight cars used in Winnepeg?

They are using the ex-CP stainless steel Budd equipment for the Winnipeg to Churchill run, as well as the branch run, as far as I knew last. I believe this was one of the last lines to use the old steam-heat related passenger cars VIA inherited. But all HEP now.

VIA did buy/lease some Heritage Amtrak sleeper for this route, but despite restoring them and giving them HEP capabilities (they were really nice cars after restoration from what I heard), they are not suitable for holding up in the cold weather. I did see them at Winnipeg this year around February, but they didn't seem to be in service.

Thus VIA has being using the ex-CP Chateau cars for this route. I have always gotten mixed reports from VIA reservation agents as to whether the Park Car operates during peak periods on this train. The diner doubles as a diner and lounge - no dome car. Was trying to book a reservation on this train for next year and was getting conflicting info on whether or not the Park Car did indeed operate in peak periods (late Spring? and late fall?).