Passenger Trains > VIA Rail

Does VIA Rail still use dome cars?

RDG302 Wrote:
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> Does VIA Rail still use dome cars?


Yes, at least on the Canadian if not other routes.

My wife and I want to ride "The Ocean" from Montreal east to Halifax and return. Would this train have a dome car?

It depends on the time of year. They take the Park Car off in the winter.

crs1026 Wrote:
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> It depends on the time of year. They take the Park
> Car off in the winter.

To elaborate on this: the Ocean now runs most, if not all trips, with the second-hand European equipment VIA bought a few years ago, but with a traditional Park-series dome-obs on the rear end of certain trips. For a while, one set of equipment on the run was still stainless, but I'm not sure that's true any more. Check the TO archives, there have been postings about this.

To guaranty a dome it's got to be the Canadian. Also the Chaleur which runs from Montreal
to the Gaspe still runs with conventional equipment and a Skyline mid train dome. It's combined
with the Ocean part of the way most of the time but I don't think Ocean "guests" have access to it.
Best to ask Via if the Chaleur has a skyline dome when you book your trip. The Ocean does ocassionally run with conventional equipment as well as previously commented, but check with Via
as that is not a given.

Sep 16/07 Chaleur #616 Consist
F40PH-2 6420,6413
Baggage 8621 All cars Budd X CPR except 8140 xRail/Cruises xx American Zephyr Inc. xx Amtrak
Coach 8140 6077,xxx5420 xxxxRF&P 801 blt 1946
" 8107
Skyline Dome 8505
Sleeper Chateau Dollier
" " Laval
Diner Acadian
Sleeper Chateau Richelieu
" " Salaberry
So there you I'm VIA's greatest fan ride the Canadian at least once a year in a Roomete usually
Vancouver Winnipeg return or Toronto Vancouver one way.

Well maintained equipment , great staff food & service AND the equipment.
Come on up American Cousins the California Zephyr is alive and well!

Ron Aboussafy
Abbotsford BC

The quickest way to determine if the Ocean is offering a Park Car on a given date is to try to make a reservation on the VIA website and see if a "Triple Bedroom" is being offered for that date. If it's shown...either as available or Sold out....it means that either the train is conventional equipment (in which case there will be a dome) or a Park Car is being run behind the "Rennaisance" (European style) trainset.

- Paul

The following overnight trains use domes on VIA Rail:

Canadian - Skyline Dome and Park Car Dome/Lounge - year round (operates often with multiple Skyline Domes in peak season)
Ocean - Park Car Dome/Lounge when Easterly class is in service (seasonal)
Chaleur - Skyline Dome (year-round)
Hudson Bay (to Churchill) - Park Car/Dome lounge (seasonal)
Skeena - Park Car Dome/Lounge (year-round) and single level Panorama cars (Panorama Cars offered seasonally with Totem Deluxe)
Edmonton-Jasper Ski Train - Single level Panorama cars (seasonal)

And yes, the Ocean operates with Renaissance cars, but during the winter, a stainless steel train (what Amtrak would consider Heritage cars) set may be substituted to allow for maintenance of the Renaissance cars. Check with VIA as they may be able to give you a schedule as to when this train set will be in service with its dome cars etc.

I would not consider the Renaissance cars second hand - they never turned a wheel in revenue service until they got to Canada. And VIA spent money to put the cars and kits etc. together, as well as winterizing them for Canadian weather. I think the Renaissance cars are in better shape (mechanically etc.) than say an Amfleet or most of Amtrak's equipment of that era. Some like the Renaissance cars and some don't. I didn't like them at first, but then grew to like them. They do lack a descent lounge car (the Renaissance service car just doesn't do it for me) when in service on the Ocean without the Park Car/Dome. VIA should really consider operating Easterly class year-round - or at least the Park Car Dome/Lounge. They've got the equipment, which is really a showcase - the domes. They don't necessarily have to offer all the "flavor" that comes with Easterly class (which includes exclusive access to the Park Car/Dome. But this may hurt the "Easterly" class from a marketing perspective.

And VIA's domes have been getting renovated - new carpeting, new cushions in the seats, new glass etc. They really keep these cars in very good shape, when compared to Amtrak equipment.

VIA will allow chartering of the infamous Park Dome/Lounge car if you got the $$$$ !!! That is for trains that can accommodate this car.

A Skyline dome is back on the Ocean for two trips a week, until sometime in the spring. The first Budd set (with Skyline but no Park car) of the season left Montreal Thursday, and I saw it leave Halifax today. Consist was 2 F40s, baggage, 2 coaches, Skyline, diner, and 4 Chateau sleepers. If you can figure out VIA's reservation system, you can tell ahead of time which trains have Budd equipment, and which ones are Ren.

Geoff

I had a Easterly reservation early last year and train was supposed to have park car but they pulled it since we were only Easterly reservation. We were supposed to have been notified but>>>> Did not leave best feeling. Also, if you get to know crew they will let you know their feeling about the "new" cars.

My personal feeling, financial and marketing failure. They were fine on Monteal to Quebec run but overnite on the Ocean forget it. Take the Chaleur for an excursion trip, not the Ocean.

Bob

The last westbound run of a Budd train with Park car (on the Ocean) was January 7, last winter. VIA pulled it rather suddenly. Although VIA has no shortage of Park cars, I guess they decided to pull it after the Christmas season because they weren't offering it on the other two trainsets. As someone pointed out last winter, it does open a window of opportunity for someone wishing to run a PV down here. VIA flatly refuses to put a PV on a train after the Park car (although they have no problem deadheading Ren cars from Montreal to Moncton behind one!), so the summer season is out. They also require a "buffer car" between the Ren train and a conventional car, and the PV owner has to pay extra for that too, so it's not surprising that nobody (to my knowledge) ran a PV down here last winter. To be honest, it's not the best time to visit anyway. The weather is frequently kind of bitter, without there being a lot of snow around.

Here's the last run of a Park car, Revelstoke Park, on a Budd Ocean, 2007-01-07.

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VIA for marketing and branding perspective probably wants to reserve the Park Dome/Lounge car for its Easterly class service - offered only seasonally. Best to confirm with VIA when Easterly class will startup, but book two weeks into operation to make sure all is in place.

Lot of mixed feelings with the Renaissance cars travelling on a long distance trek between Montreal and Halifax. Some passengers and crew love them, and some hate them. It's a mixed bag.

It does seem somewhat weird that VIA won't operate the Budd stainless steel ex-CP train cars on the Ocean route with Skyline Dome and Park Dome/Lounge car though - when substituting for the Renaissance train sets. But again, they just may want to preserve the marketing/branding of the Park Car for the Easterly class. There are enough Park Cars to go around.

I am not sure if I would want to make this trip without having the Easterly class available with its Park Dome/Lounge car. The Renaissance service cars are not the best for lounge space. I did think having the Renaissance equipment on the overnight train between Montreal and Toronto was best - board in the evening, off the train by 8:30 a.m. (i.e. the ill fated Enterprise). Could VIA experiment with other overnight routes they pulled out of service when equipment was not as flush? Recall some of the day trains out of Montreal and Toronto had some overnight trains before VIA had to cut back in the early 1990s.

The Renaissance sleepers/lounge cars were designed more for the overnight "hotel on wheels" concept. VIA took three sleeper shells to create a diner for the Ocean route to equip it with Renaissance equipment. And I think there are more sleeper shells of Renaissance cars in storage that VIA could put together if they wanted. Recall that VIA wanted both the Ocean and Chauleur converted to Renaissance equipment, but then just equipped the Ocean with such.

And the Chaleur, with its Budd ex-CP stainless steel equipment should simply operate as a separate train now that the Ocean has transitioned to Renaissance equipment. I've long said that.

My first trip on the Ocean was with the Budd ex-CP stainless steel cars, and unfortunately, that has left an impressionable image on me. So not having a dome on the Ocean's route is a downfall for me.

jp1822 Wrote:
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>
> And the Chaleur, with its Budd ex-CP stainless
> steel equipment should simply operate as a
> separate train now that the Ocean has transitioned
> to Renaissance equipment. I've long said that.

Lots of train-miles between Montreal and Matepedia to be paying a second engine crew, especially given the Chaluer's light loadings during the off-peak season. Not sure exactly when they do run as separate trains, but the published schedule is structured to allow the Chaleur to run fifteen minutes ahead, presumably during the summer and winter holidays.

Dave

Much has been written here and elsewhere about the pros and cons of the Renaissance equipment, but on my most recent trips this year I noticed that many employees have changed their opinion of them - for the better. Most passengers I've spoken to like the sleepers, especially those who are travelling alone or who want their own space and get a much larger room than a Budd roomette for only a 15% supplement. Perhaps the provision of a sofa instead of chairs and the availability of private showers for a modest surcharge (deluxe vs non-deluxe rooms) overcomes the sleepers' negative aspect of beds that are narrower than those on Budd equipment.

Regarding the dining cars, there are some advantages of the "designed and built in Canada" interiors of the Ren. diners vs the Budd diners: tables for two on one side and for four on the other; the tables for four are bigger than the tables on the Budd diners; with ther flip-up theatre-style seats it is easier to get in and out of the window seats.

Like most people, I find the Ren. lounges inadequate. But in the pre-VIA days when CNR operated The Ocean, there were no dome cars. The CNR lounge cars were full-length, but half of the car was a smoke-filled bar and the lounging half, although comfortable, had garish lighting and non-soothing upholstery colours and art work that consisted solely of "squiggles." The Ren. lounges, despite being small, are well decorated with faux wood-panelling and subdued lighting. But I agree with many others that because VIA has spoiled us by having a Park car on the Ocean (until recently) I'm not likely to travel the train when Easterly Class is not available unless I have a very pressing need to go to the east coast.

Agree with David regarding the "changing sentiments" on the Renaissance cars.

Regarding the Chaleur, it largely is tacked onto the Ocean year-round. Rarely have I heard or seen it operate as a separate train, but it should as it is way too long during peak season. Often the train has to make three stops just at one station. Causes delay and the like.

The different times out of and into Montreal for these trains only facilitate the breakup or combo of the Chaleur and Ocean. And sometimes this is delayed. I would time the Chaleur and Ocean a little differently if they were to become two separate trains - as in they wouldn't run 15 minutes apart from each other.

Now that the Ocean/Chaleur is free from any connection from the Adirondack, due to the Adirondack's horrendous timekeeping (lot of passengers used to make a same day transfer between the Adirondack and Ocean), I would schedule the Ocean to depart Montreal at 5:30 p.m. and the Chaleur at perhaps 7:00 p.m. But I think it is important for these trains to still arrive into Montreal at or before 9 a.m. (Ocean perhaps at 7:30 a.m. and Chaleur perhaps at 8:45 a.m. This would offer some increased corridor traffic along the Montreal-Quebec route at least. Course things might get a little dicey at Charny where the trains have to back in and out of the station - when they are running early or late!

VIA Rail should consider putting the Bras'd'Or back online - at least perhaps on a twice a week schedule from Halifax to some point on Cape Breton. Not sure if Sydney is the best terminus or not. The train really missed out by not offering a Friday northbound run to Cape Breton and a Sunday return. Instead it was something like a Tuesday northbound and Wednesday return. And it should only operate in peak season, as that's when you'll get the tourists. The Cape Breton region lives on tourists. But whatever the terminus is, I would make sure it has adequate services - rental car, hotel, etc. Sydney, its original terminus, may be too far north. And there should be some intermediate stops. The Maritimes deserve more than just the Chaleur and Ocean.

jp1822 Wrote:
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> VIA Rail should consider putting the Bras'd'Or
> back online - at least perhaps on a twice a week
> schedule from Halifax to some point on Cape
> Breton. Not sure if Sydney is the best terminus or
> not. The train really missed out by not offering a
> Friday northbound run to Cape Breton and a Sunday
> return. Instead it was something like a Tuesday
> northbound and Wednesday return. And it should
> only operate in peak season, as that's when you'll
> get the tourists. The Cape Breton region lives on
> tourists. But whatever the terminus is, I would
> make sure it has adequate services - rental car,
> hotel, etc. Sydney, its original terminus, may be
> too far north. And there should be some
> intermediate stops. The Maritimes deserve more
> than just the Chaleur and Ocean.

A train from Halifax to Cape Breton and to a destination other than Sydney (and I assume you mean Port Hawkesbury) makes no sense. The population base is in the North Sydney-Sydney-Glace Bay area and was always a good traffic generator for VIA prior to the January 1990 cuts. All you need do is get out on the 104 on a Friday or Sunday night and see the number of cars moving between Cape Breton and the mainland. Acadian Lines (bus) still does a very good business along this route.

If it is to be a Tour Train with domes like the Bras d’Or was, the scenery doesn’t start until you reach Cape Breton. A better option would be to operate a Tour Train on a day excursion out of Sydney along the Bras d’Or Lakes to Port Hawkesbury. It could also stop at a very nice rail museum in Orangedale. The Tour Train could be tied in with cruise ship arrivals in Sydney. (Don’t know what you mean by Sydney being too far north??)

No I don't necessarily mean Port Hawkesbury. If Sydney would be a better terminus, and the journey along the way more scenic by going all the way to Sydney, then so be it. But would such a long journey attract enough passengers and would the terminus ensure the means to accommodate with hotels, rental cars at the station etc. I am just not sure if the long journey to Sydney would support patronage as well if the terminus was cutback to a destination south of Sydney. If it is deemed Sydney is best, then it's Sydney! Could the train even leave late at night from Halifax and hit your more scenic sections at Cape Breton early the next morning? Then leave the next day in the morning out of Cape Breton with morning arrival into Halifax. Train set would have to be facilitated with sleepers, coaches and domes if that would be the case - the ex-CP stainless steel cars would have to be used. Not sure what the answer is, but I will say that the drive between Halifax and Port Hawkesbury is one I will not look forward to doing again in a car - as much as I LOVED Cape Breton! And I did think there were more points of interest and cities along the ROW to Cape Breton that the Bras'd'Or could serve. Doesn't have to be many station stops, but a few along the way, would be nice. But again, they would have to offer rental car facility or nearby hotel etc. The tracks between Truro and Port Hawkesbury also seemed to be more in use than north of Port H.