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Passenger Trains > Amtrak Empire Trains to be diverted to GCT


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Date: 10/14/08 12:55
Amtrak Empire Trains to be diverted to GCT
Author: swirsk53

See the attached report re upcoming diversion of Empire Service trains from Penn to Grand Central for the next 2 weekends to permit "switchwork" at Penn. http://www.wcbs880.com/Amtrak-Using-Grand-Central-for-Two-Weekends/3134330



Date: 10/14/08 12:59
Re: Amtrak Empire Trains to be diverted to GCT
Author: swirsk53

NEW YORK (AP) -- During the next two weekends, Grand Central Terminal will be the New York City stop for Amtrak trains to and from Albany while railroad switches are upgraded at Pennsylvania Station.

The detour will involve 45 Amtrak trains per weekend. Penn Station is Amtrak's usual stop in New York City.

While the switch work is being done, Amtrak passengers on the Hudson line will see some changes. Some trips will be longer, some will depart from or arrive at different stations and some trains will split in two at Albany, with extra engines waiting.

Amtrak will provide shuttle buses from Penn Station to Grand Central.

Amtrak trains will be leaving from Metro-North's tracks 34 and 35 on the upper level of Grand Central Terminal.

© MMVIII The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Audio Content and Graphic Content © MMVIII WCBS-AM 880. File photograph taken by Evan Bindelglass



Date: 10/14/08 13:28
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: swirsk53

Here is the info on this from the 10/10 NARP Hotline:

On October 18, 19, 25 and 26, Metro-North Commuter Railroad will be doing track work that will affect Empire Corridor service. Most Amtrak trains will operate out of Grand Central Terminal, bus service will be provided from Penn Station. There will be no Amtrak ticket sales a Grand Central; passengers are not required to ride the shuttle buses but if they going straight to Grand Central, they must already have tickets in hand. Three trains will still operate from Penn Station and detour via. New Rochelle, incurring a delay: the Maple Leaf and Adirondack will operate combined between New York and Albany on the Maple Leaf’s schedule and the Lake Shore Limited will also detour, but stay as close as possible to its published schedule.

This is a lot less than the 45 trains per some unit of time that the AP article said would be at Grand Central.



Date: 10/14/08 13:48
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: CR4122




Date: 10/14/08 13:52
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: Jaap

The empire trains will couple up to a MNCR Genesis in Harmon and entire train taken to GCT, looped and at Departure time, returning to Harmon were MNCR engine comes off.

The LD trains like 48/49 will detour via CP12 lower huds on to Mo Jct, via north wye to Harlem line, via CP212 (woodlawn) to New Rochelle, where a electric engine will couple to rear to tow train backwards to NYP.

leaving NYP train will again be towed backwards from NYP to New Rochelle and run via woodlawn and MO jct to CP12 on Hudson where it will resume its normal route.

All these moves except for electric engine ones are made with MNCR pilot engineer operating the train.



Date: 10/14/08 13:55
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: swirsk53

CR4122 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Discussed here yesterday.
> http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,1
> 781590
\

I realized that this was the thread on the diverted Lake Shore after I posted here,
Sorry for any confusion or repetition,



Date: 10/14/08 14:14
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: toledopatch

Somebody go get a shot of No. 49 running through Pelham for me. Long-distance trains haven't run through there on a regular basis since Penn Central pulled all the New Haven's Boston traffic out of Grand Central.



Date: 10/14/08 15:29
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: swirsk53

It was actually Amtrak that pulled the Boston trains out of Grand Central. Through the end of PC operation (4/30/01), the former NH Shore Line trains, continued to operate to and from Manhattan's East Side via Grand Central, with the Hell Gate Bridge Route through trains heading to and through Penn Station on the West Side. I think the only NY-Boston trains that originated in Penn Station and took the Hell Gate route under PC were the United Aircraft Turbos, which made an across the platform connection with a DC-NY Metroliner, for the fastest DC-Boston service. I remember the ride across the Hell Gate in the Turbo's dome behind the engineer. Very cool view from the bridge and in the Sunnyside yards.



Date: 10/14/08 15:34
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: toledopatch

swirsk53 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was actually Amtrak that pulled the Boston
> trains out of Grand Central. Through the end of PC
> operation (4/30/01), the former NH Shore Line
> trains, continued to operate to and from
> Manhattan's East Side via Grand Central, with the
> Hell Gate Bridge Route through trains heading to
> and through Penn Station on the West Side. I think
> the only NY-Boston trains that originated in Penn
> Station and took the Hell Gate route under PC were
> the United Aircraft Turbos, which made an across
> the platform connection with a DC-NY Metroliner,
> for the fastest DC-Boston service. I remember the
> ride across the Hell Gate in the Turbo's dome
> behind the engineer. Very cool view from the
> bridge and in the Sunnyside yards.

Thanks for the information. I was too young to remember the transition and long assumed that was a PC move.

I remember riding the UA Turbo once as a kid. It broke down in Stamford and the passengers were transferred onto a conventional train. They must have got the turbo running again because it passed us and we all got back on it again at Bridgeport!



Date: 10/14/08 18:35
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: DavidP

swirsk53 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was actually Amtrak that pulled the Boston
> trains out of Grand Central. Through the end of PC
> operation (4/30/01), the former NH Shore Line
> trains, continued to operate to and from
> Manhattan's East Side via Grand Central, with the
> Hell Gate Bridge Route through trains heading to
> and through Penn Station on the West Side. I think
> the only NY-Boston trains that originated in Penn
> Station and took the Hell Gate route under PC were
> the United Aircraft Turbos, which made an across
> the platform connection with a DC-NY Metroliner,
> for the fastest DC-Boston service. I remember the
> ride across the Hell Gate in the Turbo's dome
> behind the engineer. Very cool view from the
> bridge and in the Sunnyside yards.

I'm pretty certain Amtrak moved the Turbo to Penn Station on May 1, 1971 along with the other through trains. Before that just a few through trains each direction used the Hell Gate Route.

Dave



Date: 10/15/08 03:37
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: Lackawanna484

DavidP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> swirsk53 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It was actually Amtrak that pulled the Boston
> > trains out of Grand Central. Through the end of
> PC
> > operation (4/30/01), the former NH Shore Line
> > trains, continued to operate to and from
> > Manhattan's East Side via Grand Central, with
> the
> > Hell Gate Bridge Route through trains heading
> to
> > and through Penn Station on the West Side. I
> think
> > the only NY-Boston trains that originated in
> Penn
> > Station and took the Hell Gate route under PC
> were
> > the United Aircraft Turbos, which made an
> across
> > the platform connection with a DC-NY
> Metroliner,
> > for the fastest DC-Boston service. I remember
> the
> > ride across the Hell Gate in the Turbo's dome
> > behind the engineer. Very cool view from the
> > bridge and in the Sunnyside yards.
>
> I'm pretty certain Amtrak moved the Turbo to Penn
> Station on May 1, 1971 along with the other
> through trains. Before that just a few through
> trains each direction used the Hell Gate Route.
>
> Dave

I believe that's true. Amtrak also brought the regular use of GG1 equipment over the Hell Gate Route. The G came off in New Haven.

If anyone has a copy of a 1971 schedule, how much slower was the Washington to Boston service then, compared to now?



Date: 10/15/08 06:56
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: Selma

On May 1, 1971 the Amtrak timetable shows four trains from Washington to Boston via Penn Station. Three were through trains, and the fourth was called Turboservice-Metroliner. Washington-Boston time for the Turbotrain-Metroliner was 7:04; time for the Senator was 9:05.



Date: 10/15/08 08:45
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: Lackawanna484

aclfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On May 1, 1971 the Amtrak timetable shows four
> trains from Washington to Boston via Penn Station.
> Three were through trains, and the fourth was
> called Turboservice-Metroliner. Washington-Boston
> time for the Turbotrain-Metroliner was 7:04; time
> for the Senator was 9:05.

Thank you.

That compares with about 8 hours on a regional train from Washington to Boston today (train 82), and about 5 hours, 42 minutes on Acela 2250. Better in both cases, but not a convincing difference to me.



Date: 10/15/08 11:00
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: ChS7-321

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> That compares with about 8 hours on a regional
> train from Washington to Boston today (train 82),
> and about 5 hours, 42 minutes on Acela 2250.
> Better in both cases, but not a convincing
> difference to me.


Ok, so it's about 19% faster for the "premier" services ,and about 15% for the "regular" services, and all with an investment that, in perspective, is not that big.

How about things like train frequency and comfort? I bet those have improved over the past 37 years...



Date: 10/15/08 12:34
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: Lackawanna484

ChS7-321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > That compares with about 8 hours on a regional
> > train from Washington to Boston today (train
> 82),
> > and about 5 hours, 42 minutes on Acela 2250.
> > Better in both cases, but not a convincing
> > difference to me.
>
>
> Ok, so it's about 19% faster for the "premier"
> services ,and about 15% for the "regular"
> services, and all with an investment that, in
> perspective, is not that big.
>
> How about things like train frequency and comfort?
> I bet those have improved over the past 37
> years...

One would hope so.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if riding in a parlor car on the NYNH&H behind an I-5 was more comfortable than riding in an Acela Express today. Even with an engine change in New Haven, I suspect the trip from GCT to South Station compares favorably in time to today's premier services.

I don't have my Official Guide at work, but I can check it later



Date: 10/15/08 12:34
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: aehouse

Hope The Lake Shore departs from track 34. That was the old 20th Century Limited's standard departure track, and it would be appropriate to have sleepers for Chicago once again boarding and departing from track 34.

Art House



Date: 10/15/08 12:58
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: ChS7-321

aehouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hope The Lake Shore departs from track 34. That
> was the old 20th Century Limited's standard
> departure track, and it would be appropriate to
> have sleepers for Chicago once again boarding and
> departing from track 34.
>

Read the posts above. The Lake Shore, Maple Leaf, and Adirondack will cut through the Bronx to New Rochelle, where an electric loco will be attached to the rear, and tow them to Penn Station.



Date: 10/15/08 13:02
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: Lackawanna484

Jaap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> snip
>
> The LD trains like 48/49 will detour via CP12
> lower huds on to Mo Jct, via north wye to Harlem
> line, via CP212 (woodlawn) to New Rochelle, where
> a electric engine will couple to rear to tow train
> backwards to NYP.

snip

north wye at Mott Haven?

are we talking rare mileage (yardage?) for passenger trains?



Date: 10/15/08 14:11
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: Jack_Deasy

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> north wye at Mott Haven?
>
> are we talking rare mileage (yardage?) for
> passenger trains?

Based on my conversations with mileage collectors, all mileage counts towards your personal total traveled; something rare/uncommon such as traversing the top end of the wye between the Hudson Line and the Harlem / New Haven Lines on a revenue passenger train is worthy of documentation. I know that one of my MOUNT VERNON passengers was quite pleased to ride the car while it was being wyed north of the Rensselaer station, and another passenger was equally pleased at riding the loop track thru the car washer during a deadhead move from Penn Station to Sunnyside Yard.

I see that HICKORY CREEK has some trips scheduled between ALB and NYG during this detour period, thus covering the mileage between the bumper post at GCT and CP 12 at Spuyten Duyvil in New York Central heritage splendor.



Date: 10/15/08 16:07
Re: Amt. Empire Service to be at GCT-Oct 18,19,25,26
Author: knotch8

Lackawanna484 and David P, are you sure that Penn Central didn't move the TurboTrain to Penn Station before Amtrak began on May 1, 1971? I'm not sure, and don't have enough old timetables to check, but I believe that PC made that move. Also, I'm pretty sure that PC operated GG-1s to New Haven before Amtrak but, again, that's just my recollection, and I could certainly be wrong about that.



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