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Date: 12/14/08 03:36
Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: SantaFeRuss

Anyone can tell me what the weight of the average Amtrak long distant passenger train is? These days, it seems the Southwest Cheif and the Sunset LTD have two P42-9 (sometimes P32-8 or F59PH)locomotives, one baggage car and 8 or 9 passenger cars.

What is the empty and loaded weight? I do know the loaded weight varies according to how full the train is. Just want an average. Thanks for any answers.


SantaFeRuss



Date: 12/14/08 04:59
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: Jaap

The P42 is around 289 000 Lbs (full)
The superliners are about 140 000 Lbs
average American is about 210 pounds fully loaded



Date: 12/14/08 06:22
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: ts1457

Jaap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The P42 is around 289 000 Lbs (full)
> The superliners are about 140 000 Lbs
> average American is about 210 pounds fully loaded

Thanks. Do you have the weights for Amfleet and Horizon cars?



Date: 12/14/08 07:05
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: AmtrakPalmetto

Hi,

P42DC are 268,000 lbs
Baggage Cars are 67 tons loaded, 67 tons empty
Superliner Is are 80 tons loaded, 80 tons empty
Syperliner IIs are 85 tons loaded, 85 tons empty
Amfleet Is are 58 tons loaded, 58 tons empty
Amfleet IIS are 57 tons loaded, 57 tons empty
Horizons are 57 tons loaded, 57 tons empty
Viewliners are 65 tons loaded, 65 tons empty
Auto Carriers are 82 tons loaded, 42 tons empty



Date: 12/14/08 07:07
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: ctillnc

I've heard figures of 50 to 65 tons for Amfleet. Most often people quote 50 to 55. Note that 84 pax (fully loaded) are 8 tons. Another factor is whether the water and waste storage tanks are full or empty. Most Internet postings say that Heritage fleet weighs more than Amfleet but less than Superliners.



Date: 12/14/08 07:16
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: calzephyr48

Heritage cars ranged from about 62 tons for a bare-bones coach to around 70 tons for a sleeper, to 75-85 tons for a dome.



Date: 12/14/08 07:30
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: kk5ol

SantaFeRuss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is the empty and loaded weight?
> Just want an average.

Here's Train #1, the Sunset Limited arriving LAX today. The railroad runs passenger cars as loads at it's published weight regardless of the head-count. (it could be misconstrued as an invasion of privacy)

802, out

Train ID Category Type Origin AEI Last AEI Site AEI Car Count
AMT1 11 P-passenger Passenger Iowjct, LA 0447 SP636 WISTER 5

Event City/State Date/Time Loads Empties Gross Weight(tons) Length(ft.)
Arrived Lakcharle, LA 12/12/08 17:37 9 0 642 903
Departed Beaumont, TX 12/12/08 19:32 9 0 642 903
Departed Houston, TX 12/12/08 21:46 9 0 642 903
Departed Sanantoni, TX 12/13/08 05:54 9 0 642 903
Departed Delrio, TX 12/13/08 08:42 9 0 642 903
Departed Sanderson, TX 12/13/08 11:13 9 0 642 903
Departed Alpine, TX 12/13/08 13:27 9 0 642 903
Departed Elpasdals, TX 12/13/08 17:46 9 0 642 903
Departed Deming, NM 12/13/08 19:29 9 0 642 903
Departed Lordsburg, NM 12/13/08 20:24 9 0 642 903
Departed Tucson, AZ 12/14/08 00:57 9 0 642 972
Arrived Maricopa, AZ 12/14/08 02:34 9 0 642 972
Departed Yuma, AZ 12/14/08 05:05 9 0 642 972

Scheduled Events
Scheduled Departure Wpalsprin, CA 12/14/08 07:35 9 0 642 903
Scheduled Departure Nontario, CA 12/14/08 09:06 9 0 642 903
Scheduled Departure Npomona, CA 12/14/08 09:16 9 0 642 903
Scheduled Arrival Elmonte, CA 12/14/08 10:14 9 0 642 903



Date: 12/14/08 07:49
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: ts1457

Thanks everyone for the weight info. So if we have nine Superliners and a baggage car on a LDT, what would the total number of available seats be? Would the typical consist would be - diner, lounge, four coaches, two regular sleepers and a transition sleeper with only some of the rooms available for revenue service?



Date: 12/14/08 09:34
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: P

Jaap Wrote:

> average American is about 210 pounds fully loaded


Holy Crap! Where did you get that figure from? I am just under your figure and thinking this through, I think you are quite a bit high. I would bet that there is a very small percentage of women that are 210 lbs in this country. I would also say, from observation, that I weigh more than about half the men.
If you are using men only, I would go along with 210 being close to average, but you say 'fully loaded' -- I'm not sure what that means??
Then again, are you assuming that the passengers on the train are all railfans? If that's the case, they would nearly be all men - and maybe your figure is a bit low.....



Date: 12/14/08 10:28
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: AlwaysLate

kk5ol Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SantaFeRuss Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What is the empty and loaded weight?
> > Just want an average.
>
> Here's Train #1, the Sunset Limited arriving LAX
> today. The railroad runs passenger cars as loads
> at it's published weight regardless of the
> head-count. (it could be misconstrued as an
> invasion of privacy)
>
> 802, out
>
> Train ID Category Type Origin AEI Last AEI Site
> AEI Car Count
> AMT1 11 P-passenger Passenger Iowjct, LA 0447
> SP636 WISTER 5
>
> Event City/State Date/Time Loads Empties Gross
> Weight(tons) Length(ft.)
> Arrived Lakcharle, LA 12/12/08 17:37 9 0 642 903
>
> Departed Beaumont, TX 12/12/08 19:32 9 0 642 903
>
> Departed Houston, TX 12/12/08 21:46 9 0 642 903
> Departed Sanantoni, TX 12/13/08 05:54 9 0 642 903
>
> Departed Delrio, TX 12/13/08 08:42 9 0 642 903
> Departed Sanderson, TX 12/13/08 11:13 9 0 642 903
>
> Departed Alpine, TX 12/13/08 13:27 9 0 642 903
> Departed Elpasdals, TX 12/13/08 17:46 9 0 642 903
>
> Departed Deming, NM 12/13/08 19:29 9 0 642 903
> Departed Lordsburg, NM 12/13/08 20:24 9 0 642 903
>
> Departed Tucson, AZ 12/14/08 00:57 9 0 642 972
> Arrived Maricopa, AZ 12/14/08 02:34 9 0 642 972
> Departed Yuma, AZ 12/14/08 05:05 9 0 642 972
>
> Scheduled Events
> Scheduled Departure Wpalsprin, CA 12/14/08 07:35
> 9 0 642 903
> Scheduled Departure Nontario, CA 12/14/08 09:06 9
> 0 642 903
> Scheduled Departure Npomona, CA 12/14/08 09:16 9
> 0 642 903
> Scheduled Arrival Elmonte, CA 12/14/08 10:14 9 0
> 642 903

From Lordsburg to Yuma, the Sunset grew 69'? They add a UP motor, then take it off?



Date: 12/14/08 12:17
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: meh

I think you may be somewhat over-analyzing what was probably intended as a humorous comment about the average person in the US being 210 pounds.

But even so, a 150-pound person carrying on a 10-pound personal bag and a 50-pound suitcase seems to be a perfectly reasonable estimate of a typical passenger's total contribution of 210 pounds to the weight of the train.

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are using men only, I would go along with
> 210 being close to average, but you say 'fully
> loaded' -- I'm not sure what that means??



Date: 12/14/08 12:49
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: TCnR

210 sounds good, maybe low as an average with baggage. A few years ago I was returning from overseas business and standing in Customs, looked around and was pretty grossed out.



Date: 12/14/08 13:36
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: rresor

The weight of passengers is sufficiently small as a percent of the weight of a passenger rail car that it is usually disregarded.

The weights posted by AmtrakPalmetto are consistent with the numbers I have seen in Amtrak's contracts with the freight railroads.

So figure a nine-car Superliner train at about 720 tons (or a bit more, if Superliner IIs). Usual power is two P42s at 4000 HP each, giving about 11 HP per ton. At that power, the train can probably climb trees. Freights are usually assigned between a half HP per ton (unit coal and grain in flat territory) and three HP per ton (intermodal trains in the mountains).



Date: 12/14/08 18:25
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: Jaanfo

rresor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So figure a nine-car Superliner train at about 720
> tons (or a bit more, if Superliner IIs). Usual
> power is two P42s at 4000 HP each, giving about 11
> HP per ton. At that power, the train can probably
> climb trees. Freights are usually assigned between
> a half HP per ton (unit coal and grain in flat
> territory) and three HP per ton (intermodal trains
> in the mountains).


two P42s = 4200 + 2800 (If Generating HEP) = 7,000 HP

Still pretty powerful HPT in comparison to a freight train.



Date: 12/14/08 19:37
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: a737flyer

Passengers on airliners weigh 160 in summer and 165 in winter...I think. Been a long time, but I remember when I flew the Miami Dolphins, they had another set of weights to use.



Date: 12/14/08 20:20
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: GP25

AmtrakPalmetto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
>
> P42DC are 268,000 lbs
> Baggage Cars are 67 tons loaded, 67 tons empty
> Superliner Is are 80 tons loaded, 80 tons empty
> Syperliner IIs are 85 tons loaded, 85 tons empty
> Amfleet Is are 58 tons loaded, 58 tons empty
> Amfleet IIS are 57 tons loaded, 57 tons empty
> Horizons are 57 tons loaded, 57 tons empty
> Viewliners are 65 tons loaded, 65 tons empty
> Auto Carriers are 82 tons loaded, 42 tons empty


I wonder what the 5 tons difference is with the Superliner Is and IIs?

And whats the weight for the California Cars and Surfliner Cars?



Date: 12/14/08 22:24
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: Tominde

a737flyer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Passengers on airliners weigh 160 in summer and
> 165 in winter...I think. Been a long time, but I
> remember when I flew the Miami Dolphins, they had
> another set of weights to use.


CDC 2004 reports that a 50-50 mix of M-F ages 20-74 = 177.7lbs avg naked. Add 7 lbs for clothes and now 185. That does not include luggage. Teenage avg = 141 lbs.

The 2006 FAA Circular, AC 120–27E,
also uses an average winter passenger
weight of 189 pounds without carry-on

Tom P



Date: 12/14/08 23:15
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: ts1457

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks everyone for the weight info. So if we have
> nine Superliners and a baggage car on a LDT, what
> would the total number of available seats be?
> Would the typical consist would be - diner,
> lounge, four coaches, two regular sleepers and a
> transition sleeper with only some of the rooms
> available for revenue service?

I've been doing some figuring. The Superliner train will weight around 700 tons. It probably would have around 400 seats depending on how you count the sleepers. That's a whopping 1.75 tons per seat for the LDT.

If you ran a corridor train you would probably need six Amfleets, including a cafe car to carry the same number of passengers. That corridor train would be around 330 tons, less than half the weight per seat of the Superliner LDT. Figure two engines on the LDT, versus one on the corridor.

I've seen lots of advocates misuse the average fuel consumption per passenger/mile for passenger trains to try to justify new LTD's, but in reality LTD's are fuel inefficient, especially those of the Superliner kind.



Date: 12/15/08 01:57
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: SantaFeRuss

Thanks, folks, for all the responses. Based on what I have read, I concluded a 10 car long-distance Superliner equipped loaded passenger train weighs approximately 1000 to 1100 tons, give or take, excluding the motive power. Two P42-9 locomotives seem to be more of the norm than not. 8400 hp for the two P42-9's. About 8-9 horsepower per ton. Based on "my" average weight per passenger, more like 200 lbs vs 210 lbs (are we that fat?)someone posted, you figure about 8 tons of people per car except maybe the sleepers and dinning cars. So to me that comes pretty close to a train between 1000 and 1100 tons. Again, thanks!


SantaFeRuss



Date: 12/15/08 02:17
Re: Amtrak passenger train weight
Author: SantaFeRuss

The above post by me should also state that lounge and dining cars are full of provisions. Also the load in the baggage car. This is additional weight. I forgot to include this in my post.

SantaFeRuss



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