Passenger Trains > Trains Unlimited Tours - Fraud or ... ?

Just received my letter in the mail today saying that they are stopping business at the end of the year and if you have a booking with them prior to November and paid by credit card to call you credit card company and file a dispute. They have a cash flow problem. Oh and they are still running their Valentine snow flake train in February. Oh and they haven't updated the web site with this information either. Maybe someone can scan and post their letter later.

This seems wrong? Any one have any insight?

I don't know anything about the specifics of this situation. However, what you are describing is generally what happens when a company goes bankrupt. As a paying customer, you become just another unsecured creditor (trying to get your money back for the trip that will no longer exist).

Since you would just be in line with the rest of the creditors at the bankruptcy court -- probably be near the back of the line -- and you would likely not get all of your money, and possibly not any of it back, going to your credit card company to dispute the charges is good advice. That way you get your money back from the credit card company, and they it is the credit card company trying to get the money out of the vendor from the bankruptcy proceedings, and not you.

I would not say this is fraud, rather, if it is true, it is sadly just another company that cannot stay afloat in this economy...

I appreciate your well thought out response and I whole heartily agree with you.

I believe that my credit card company will make all well, but I've always been suspect of the practices of TUT.

Seems like they should not be running the February trip either, but they still are.

I'll make sure that I'm more watchful of TUT and the folks that ran it (into the ground).

There were some rumors going around some months back about this possibility and IIRC Chris Skow wrote to either this board or others to explain that the root of the problem had to do with a tour company, I believe in New Zealand or Australia, taking the money and running and leaving everyone high and dry. The fraud was not perpetrated by TUT but was perpetrated ON TUT. Note also that Tom Rader of Colorado RailCar just shut up shop Monday. Just more signs of the spiraling economy and its effect on tourism etc. Attendance at the Monterey Bay Aquarium is 10-11% down from last year and they are projecting 12-15% for 2009.
On this note, happy holidays---------------
C.

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA

Let's see: TUT?

Hmmm

Could be Toledo Union Terminal or Toronto Union Terminal OR??

(some don't know what you're talking about........)

MEKoch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's see: TUT?
>
> Hmmm
>
> Could be Toledo Union Terminal or Toronto Union
> Terminal OR??
>
> (some don't know what you're talking
> about........)


Ahhhhhhhh....read his original subject line, as in "Trains Unlimited Tours".

This is just a general comment as I have no first hand info on this business.

What can happen to this type of company is they are paying current bills with
downpayments on future travel. I wouldn't call it dishonest but it is a little
like the ponzi scheme we are all hearing about. They tend to get furthr and further behind. When the economy goes south, then the future payments dry up and down they go. But as such I would not say the economy caused their demise

It is kind like a drought. When it hits the weak trees will die off, the good ones will survive. Profitable, well capitalized companies who have a sound business will often survive.
This is the primary argument against the bailouts. It keeps the weak in business to
compete unfairly with the survivors.

Bob

Well said Bob.


> It is kind like a drought. When it hits the weak
> trees will die off, the good ones will survive.
> Profitable, well capitalized companies who have a
> sound business will often survive.
> This is the primary argument against the bailouts.
> It keeps the weak in business to
> compete unfairly with the survivors.
>
> Bob

Please . . . . In these days be sure to know what you are talking about before screaming "FRAUD". Be sympathetic with ANYONE in business today.

As far as most of us know, TUT (not the Egyptian) is (was) a good company run by good people, and like more businesses than we even want to think about, will be shutting down soon. Unfortunately, in many cases the entire family's nest egg goes right down with it.

So unless you really know something to the contrary, please be kind to those who have tried and did succeed, then took a fatal dive under these conditions, which are no fault of their own. Your own friends or relatives may be next.

Uh-oh....and I've got $600 credit on file with them from a Starhachpi trip where those monies were to be applied to a future trip. I guess I'll be contacting my credit card company.

I wonder how the private car charter companies will be impacted by this, as TUT has many trips a year that hire PV's. I hope they are okay through this.

Usually when a company goes out of business, it announces such as company representative Ron Burkhard did with the news item in Monday's Trains Newswire.

On the other hand, they just updated their website yesterday (Tuesday, 3:40 p.m. CST) announcing a trip to Ecuador scheduled for a week in September. Either the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing or they are still hoping for a Christmas miracle.

By the way......I know the economy stinks right now and everything, but if it weren't for the daily news stories on how bad everything is, I wouldn't know anything had changed. I've traveled a lot in the last year, and even the last few months. Hotels are packed, airports are packed, planes are full, taxi lines are long, theater (stage) shows are sold out, the malls are packed with shoppers.....I don't quite get it. (And I just got back from Vegas this afternoon....full hotels, full Strip, packed grand opening for Encore, casinos and tables full, long taxi lines, full airport, full airplane, full parking garages at SFO......so again, I don't quite understand all of this.)

smitty195 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way......I know the economy stinks right
> now and everything, but if it weren't for the
> daily news stories on how bad everything is, I
> wouldn't know anything had changed. I've traveled
> a lot in the last year, and even the last few
> months. Hotels are packed, airports are packed,
> planes are full, taxi lines are long, theater
> (stage) shows are sold out, the malls are packed
> with shoppers.....I don't quite get it.

Yeah, I've seen the same thing. But I'm among the newly unemployed, so I'm feeling it!

smitty195,

I had $400 on file for seven months until the second round of Tehachapi trips in October. Took the trip then and had a great time. But since Amtrak made them take the cars all the way to Seattle, passengers north of Sacramento were sparse and I'm sure they lost money overall on the excursion. On the other hand, the service on that section was still first class for the few passengers we had.

At that time the rumor mill hadn't started and I was considering advance booking for 2009 trips. That's what makes this so strange. They are still advertising trips but not booking reservations and saying if you paid earlier than November, contact your credit card company. Very unusual to say the least.

I heard rumors for a couple of months about this, but I never followed up with looking into it further. It is tough to run excursions in this financial atmosphere. Maybe we can pick up some of the business and run a PV trip of our own this year. When I run our trips I place the money into an escrow account and pay for trip expenses out of cash on hand from membership revenue for the year.

As bad as the economy there are some things people don't cut back on. Trainorders.com is doing well and this month our sales are actually up more than 10% over last year.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

smitty195 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way......I know the economy stinks right
> now and everything, but if it weren't for the
> daily news stories on how bad everything is, I
> wouldn't know anything had changed. I've traveled
> a lot in the last year, and even the last few
> months. Hotels are packed, airports are packed,
> planes are full, taxi lines are long, theater
> (stage) shows are sold out, the malls are packed
> with shoppers.....I don't quite get it. (And I
> just got back from Vegas this afternoon....full
> hotels, full Strip, packed grand opening for
> Encore, casinos and tables full, long taxi lines,
> full airport, full airplane, full parking garages
> at SFO......so again, I don't quite understand all
> of this.)

I agree with smitty195. In Anaheim the shops,traffic to malls etc. is jammed today, but on the TV they keep telling everyone how empty the malls, etc. are. Must be a local boom.

ATSF429 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I agree with smitty195. In Anaheim the
> shops,traffic to malls etc. is jammed today, but
> on the TV they keep telling everyone how empty the
> malls, etc. are. Must be a local boom.

I went to the Cherry Hill Mall in New Jersey this morning to pick up some new spectacles and drove around the parking lot for 20 minutes before I found an emptying out parking space. Then waited forever in Lenscrafter to be waited on.

Tonight I tried dinner at the local McCormick and Schmidt restaurant in Cherry Hill and the bar and restaurant were jammed.

and yes, I do hear about neighbors who have been laid off.

Could it be the new phenomena of husband and wife both working, be making the difference?

and yes, I do hear about neighbors who have been laid off.

Could it be the new phenomena of husband and wife both working, be making the difference?

Could it be that the media is badly over-hyping the situation so that job losses appear a lot worse than it actually is? So when their new savior arrives in three weeks, he can be their hero with $850 billion in new government spending paid for by printing money??? Naw, they wouldn't do that, would they???

(p.s. I'm not in anyway minimizing the pain of those who have lost jobs due to this economic recession. Though not losing my job, I'm less than six months from retirement and have seen all my IRA gains from the last six years wiped out including some principal and it's caused me to re-evaluate my priorities and plans. But continually and repeatedly focusing on the negative by the press does nothing to instill confidence. They can find thousands of hard luck stories to reinforce their premise that times are tough. It's not all bad; there are other stories out there about how a job loss has led to a new, better opportunity, especially for those who have skills and initiative. The old saw about making lemonade out of lemons comes to mind. The key to general economic recovery is low taxes and/or tax incentives and less governmental regulation, environmental or otherwise. Unfortunately, those two pieces seem like they will be in short supply in the new administration so recovery may be slow in coming. End of rant.)

Maybe we can pick up some of the business and run a PV trip of our own this year.

Was looking forward to some PV trips next year myself but may have to wait until I have some more resources. I'll be looking to see what comes available out on the coast.

Sad to hear about TUT's problems...I took two trips with them in the past six months and really enjoyed both. Domes over Donner with the detour thru the FRC and the Domes over Tehachapi. I found Chris and Debbie to be very nice to deal with but this economy is going to be tough to survive in. Chris is a former railroader and is very passionate about providing good tours I believe. It will be bad for the railfan community if the Skow's are no longer involved in the rail tour business.