Passenger Trains > Where's the rest of the 2010 money?

The 2010 grant,(no doubt our last), is $2.3B. So far, LaHood has announced only the following grants amounting to a measly $285M.

. $194M to California (for more studies)
. $ 50M to Vermont (upgrade 190 miles of Vermonter track)
. $ 17M to N.Car. (station upgraded between Charlotte and Raleigh)
. $ 15M to Ohio (for more studies)
. $ 9M to MD (improvements to BWI rail station)
. $285M TOTAL

Also, I understand that of the original stimulus grant of $8B, only about $885M has been released so far by LaHood's DOT. Now we know why, despite all this money, very little construction is in evidence.

With such a huge amount yet unspent, this will be an irresistible target for the new anti-Amtrak Congress which is about to arrive. They will go after this rail money with a vengeance, flying the "Stop Spending" flag. I only hope Obama wrote the stimulus bill in such a way that prevents a future Congress from re-directing (oh, I meant "saving") this money.

While we all want better rail transportation, this simply shows what was wrong with the stimulus package in the first place. It was suppose to create employment with "shovel ready" projects. Instead, the unemployment rate has actually gone up and most of what we are seeing is money spent on more studies. At this rate, Obama will be long gone and the rest of us dead before we seen anything actually constructed.

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> While we all want better rail transportation, this
> simply shows what was wrong with the stimulus
> package in the first place. It was suppose to
> create employment with "shovel ready" projects.
> Instead, the unemployment rate has actually gone
> up and most of what we are seeing is money spent
> on more studies. At this rate, Obama will be long
> gone and the rest of us dead before we seen
> anything actually constructed.

In NJ, at least, the current round of stimulus money has gone to preserving teacher, police, and fire fighter jobs. Some construction work has been evident, but not anywhere near half the money, from what I understand.

Unfortunately, preserving those teacher, etc jobs merely delays the brutal choices that have already been imposed on many private sector workers. Work harder, do more, or see some of your colleagues laid off. If the money isn't there from taxes, sales, etc the money isn't there. A one time infusion just kicks the can down the road.

When freight traffic dropped sharply, DC didn't bail out Union Pacific, BNSF, etc and tell them to keep all their engineers, car repair people, etc. The company trimmed their work forces to meet the amount of work and funds they had available. No reason why the government isn't doing the same...

Where's the money you ask? The Chinese haven't given it to us yet...

Milw_E70: I'm afraid you are more correct than you realize. China has tons of American dollars because of these horrible free trade deals we made with them. What is our trade deficit?, a Trillion dollars per year, I think.

The "Stop Spending" crowd never mentions this deficit, but they have a lot to say about the "deficit" of the Sunset Ltd., for example.

What galls me is, China is using some of their trade surplus with us to build a truly High-Speed rail system from scratch. They must think we're pretty dumb.

Maybe we are dumb, if we think that a trade deficit of this size is "Good", while building high-speed rail is "Bad".

Joe

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While we all want better rail transportation, this
> simply shows what was wrong with the stimulus
> package in the first place. It was suppose to
> create employment with "shovel ready" projects.
> Instead, the unemployment rate has actually gone
> up and most of what we are seeing is money spent
> on more studies. At this rate, Obama will be long
> gone and the rest of us dead before we seen
> anything actually constructed.


The unemployment rate general trend was up from October 2006 to December 2010. Since then, the general trend has been down. The general downward trend would have started in June 2009, but there was a spike in November - December 2009. The peak was end of December 2009 at 10.6%. Latest data is September 2010 showing the aggregate unemployment rate is 9.6%. This is from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. The BLS also shows that job loss started decreasing in March 2009 and slowed down every month until November 2009, when there were job gains. Losses again in December, then flat January and February, then a gain in March 2009 of just under 200,000 jobs. Gains have continued in private sector since then, while government employment has trended downward (mostly due to temporary census workers ending their contracts). When the bill was signed unemployment was 9%. It is now 9.6%. So, yes, unemployment was higher, but it is down 1% from its peak and the trend is heading down.

The stimulus bill was signed in late February 2009. Tax incentives were the first kick-in. Most of the stimulus bill was actually tax credits and rebates, which is exactly the kind of thing the Right says needs to be done to stimulate the economy. In fact, $288 billion of the $787 billion was tax relief.

Infrastructure improvements received $111 billion. We just had someone post pictures on TO of a rail project going in with stimulus money. Here in the Bay Area of California, I think the Santa Clara and San Jose depot improvements are getting stimulus money. Lots of road repairs and improvements are done or being done around my area and are using contractors who were idle. Projects are happening and being completed and this is verifiable if someone does the homework.

The Congressional Budget Office reported in early 2010 an employment gain attributable to the stimulus bill of up to 2.8 million and a GDP boost of up to 4.2 percent.

Even Senators Tom Coburn and John McCain, two big critics of the bill, admitted that the bill has had a positive effect on the economy. They stated that it was not the "biggest bang for the buck". That is from a CNN article about their criticisms.

Well, maybe not, but better some help than none at all.

One item that amuses me: the recent calls to extend the "Bush Tax Cuts" for the wealthiest 2% of Americans states that this will have a significant effect on improving the economy. Well, they were enacted between 2001 and 2003 and have been in place since that time, which includes the biggest economic slowdown since the Depression. Yup, overwhelming evidence they improve the economy.....


Z

zephyrus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
.............................................
.............................................
>
> One item that amuses me: the recent calls to
> extend the "Bush Tax Cuts" for the wealthiest 2%
> of Americans states that this will have a
> significant effect on improving the economy.
> Well, they were enacted between 2001 and 2003 and
> have been in place since that time, which includes
> the biggest economic slowdown since the
> Depression. Yup, overwhelming evidence they
> improve the economy.....
>
>
> Z

You identify several good points worthy of discussion. However, your last paragraph is something that has been on my mind a lot for the past few weeks. I have heard the argument, many times recently, that extending the tax cuts to wealthiest one or two percent of tax payers will stimulate job growth. In all honesty, I will support any tax policy that rewards individuals or businesses for the creation of jobs. It is good policy, even it if has negative impact on the budget (at least in the short term). Listening to the politicians, one sometimes gets the idea that this one or two percent of high income earners, who some politicians dutifully remind us are often "small" businesses, are the local "mom and pop" store or service business down the street. Of course, that's not accurate. Don't get me wrong, as I still believe that a business should get a tax break for job creation in this kind of economy. What I dislike is the "bait and switch" chicanery of the sales pitch. The "small" businesses they are talking about are companies like Bechtel, which is considered a small business because of it's Subchapter S Corporate structure. Many would feel better about the issue if there was more truth being told.

The other thing that bothers me is that these are not new tax cuts. It should be easy to identify the impact of the cuts on job creation, as the cuts have been there for a decade. If these cuts are such job creators, there must be evidence, after ten years, to support that. If not, what exactly will change in 2010/2011 to cause job creation? Changing control of the congress back to the other party doesn't convince me, as in 2000, that party was relatively new to control, having taken control in the previous two election cycles, so there is no validity to notion that they were somehow suffering from the laziness of incumbency. Unfortunately, when you "vote the bums out", you generally get new bums.

warren49 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (snip) Unfortunately, when you "vote the
> bums out", you generally get new bums.

But, it plays to the simplistic view many Americans of both parties have of the government. That may be one reason why so many veteran politicians are sweating a bit.

Lots of people are upset that Mr Obama was unable to turn around the country and make all the wonderful changes he promised. Even getting the 60 senators from his own party to agree on anything turned out to be pretty difficult.

I think one of the biggest problems with politics in America is well touched on above: the simplistic view of the average citizen.

Running a country this complex is a TOUGH JOB. Are their theiving dishonest politicians? You bet, same as there are crooked corporate executives, bent fund traders and teachers who have sex with underage students. In any human enterprise, there will be those who work to their own advantage. But there will also be those who are honest and hard-working and seek to do what they feel is the best. Unfortunately, what I think is the best may not be what the guy next door thinks is the best. And, when pandering to the simple views and lowest common denomenator, it becomes easier to just say I am a wretched crook who is out of touch than actually debate and discuss my position.

And, before someone decides to jump me about my comments on the tax cuts above, business taxes and corporations are issues that I tend to keep a close eye on. I am a partner in a small corporation, as well as an officer of a non-profit corporation.

Z

zephyrus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The unemployment rate general trend was up from
> October 2006 to December 2010. Since then, the
> general trend has been down. The general downward
> trend would have started in June 2009, but there
> was a spike in November - December 2009. The peak
> was end of December 2009 at 10.6%. Latest data is
> September 2010 showing the aggregate unemployment
> rate is 9.6%.

While I generally agree with everything you say, at least according to my calendar December 2010 is still a little ways off.....

It can wait getting here all it wants to, too. It has another one of those increasingly-dreaded birthdays in it, that now seem to be coming with increasing speed. I suppose, though, that facing another one is better than having had the last one!

lowwater



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/10 17:13 by lowwater.

So much for gettin' very excited about what we're supposed to have "OUR DAY" comin' huh Joe?
All that money for my home state will be wasted, simple as that, why don't they just do what supposed to be done from Day 1, treat Amtrak like all the other modes and quit tryin' to destory it! They should know they can't do that from the get go!

ProAmtrak: Yes, I was excited about "Our Day" coming. But, life has delt us a setback. Many of our friends who were giving rail a chance for better things will be leaving. Arriving in their place will be folks with a built-in bias against passenger rail (it's Government spending).

I hope to regain my excitement for passenger rail's future after these two things become clear:

1. Will the Democrats retain enough seats to mount a filibuster to stop future anti-rail bills (if not, the Republicans will cut us to ribbons).

2. Was the Stimulus Bill on rail money written in such a way that the new Congress can't take it back.

These two questions are all that's important to me now, especially the Stimulus money. Since 90% of it has yet to be spent, many good things can still happen--if we get it--no matter who controls Congress.

My excitement will have to wait a bit. We're all going to be on defense pretty soon.

Joe

Your not gonna see most of that money distributed. In reality it doesnt exist.

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ProAmtrak: Yes, I was excited about "Our Day"
> coming. But, life has delt us a setback. Many of
> our friends who were giving rail a chance for
> better things will be leaving. Arriving in their
> place will be folks with a built-in bias against
> passenger rail (it's Government spending).
>
> I hope to regain my excitement for passenger
> rail's future after these two things become
> clear:
>
> 1. Will the Democrats retain enough seats to
> mount a filibuster to stop future anti-rail bills
> (if not, the Republicans will cut us to ribbons).
>
> 2. Was the Stimulus Bill on rail money written in
> such a way that the new Congress can't take it
> back.
>
> These two questions are all that's important to me
> now, especially the Stimulus money. Since 90% of
> it has yet to be spent, many good things can still
> happen--if we get it--no matter who controls
> Congress.
>
> My excitement will have to wait a bit. We're all
> going to be on defense pretty soon.
>
> Joe


Democrats? Give me a break, both parties proved a million times over they're anti-Amtrak! I have not seen anyone actually say they support Amtrak and act on it! HSR in this country? Probably won't happen as long as they keep draggin' their feet, and Amtrak? Who knows what next year's gonna bring since they'll be 40 years old, and 20 years ago prior to May 1, 2011, they were lookin' great!

ProAmtrak:

I'm sure some Democrats are anti-Amtrak, but they gave us about $12 Billion bucks. Agreed, we haven't got most of it yet. But, as long as the next Congress doesn't take it back, we will be receiving it--eventually.

One thing I've learned from all this Stimulus effort is that, strange as it may seem, it's actually difficult to spend it. NIMBY"s fight you; freight railroads fight you; everybody wants studies, studies and more studies. It seems nobody in railroading knows how to effect improvements, even when they get the money to do it.

After the elections, we'll all have a better idea about passenger rail's future--for better or worse.

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/10 07:56 by floridajoe2001.

Yeah, and if it's for the so called "better," watch them drag their feet again! I'm still not happy and probably won't be until dramatic results happen, this snails pace sucks!

ProAmtrak:

I share your views. We live in a paralyzed America. We drag our feet on everything. We are a divided nation. HSR is looked upon as "wonderful" by half the nation, and as "wasteful spending" by the other half. This is what "sucks".

Who knows what the next few years will mean for HSR or Amtrak. If we're lucky, we may get all the $12B and the wonderful things this will bring; or, we may have to be satisfied with 110mph trains between Alton and Springfield (now building), and forget about all the rest.

HSR/Amtrak is completely at the mercy of politicians, and we're about to lose some friends and gain some enemies. But, I haven't given up. We just have to wait and see.

Joe



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/10 08:22 by floridajoe2001.

> HSR is looked upon as "wonderful" by half the nation, and as "wasteful spending" by the other half.

And some of us (possibly many of us) look on it as both.

To wit: HSR would be a wonderful idea. IF, if, we could just DO IT. Not investigate it. Not study it. Not write EIRs. Not take it to court. Not take it to couurt again. Not do an updated EIR again. Anf then take it to court again. And then do some studies. An then a new EIR. And then a new lawsuit.

And even without that, if any money did get awarded to a construction company, it will either be the brother in law of a politician or a non-US company, and no construction will be done or it will fall down before half done, and in any case it will only get that far before someone stops it for some reason.

And if it all should be built, it will run at 89 MPH max for 5 miles out of 50 (the entire length of the line, half way to anyplace useful) and be billed by every politician around as the most wonderful thing ever.

And it will have only cost 2.3T dollars or thereabout by the time it is "complete", having been billed at $57M to start with.


Yea, some of us think HSR would be nice. And think it will be wasteful.

Iwiltion:

I agree with you on all your points. You have beautifully described a paralyzed, dived, America. Nevertheless, it won't be so bad as long as we get the money--no matter how long it takes.

Joe

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ProAmtrak:
>
> I share your views. We live in a paralyzed
> America. We drag our feet on everything. We are
> a divided nation. HSR is looked upon as
> "wonderful" by half the nation, and as "wasteful
> spending" by the other half. This is what
> "sucks".
>
> Who knows what the next few years will mean for
> HSR or Amtrak. If we're lucky, we may get all the
> $12B and the wonderful things this will bring; or,
> we may have to be satisfied with 110mph trains
> between Alton and Springfield (now building), and
> forget about all the rest.
>
> HSR/Amtrak is completely at the mercy of
> politicians, and we're about to lose some friends
> and gain some enemies. But, I haven't given up.
> We just have to wait and see.
>
> Joe


You know how many years they've been talkin' about that stretch of track bein' HSR? That's the worse example of that talk next to my home state's claim on how great HSR will be (maybe in my book!) Want to try somethin' else that's actually true instead of optimistic?