Passenger Trains > WashPost Editorial: Chinese HSR Train Wreck Censorship

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/from-a-train-tragedy-to-a-battle-over-censorship-in-china/2011/08/02/gIQAJUCjsI_story.html

Most of us realize a fee press does not exist in China. They are a totalitarian, Communist, atheistic, State. Why be surprised that they would "cover up" a minor train wreck.(yes, a high speed derailment, off an embankment, with only 39 fatalities, does not qualify as a catastrophe).

My surprise (disgust, really), is why our media, like the WashPost, fail to tell us that this Communist state is also holding our debt and taking our jobs; and,that they have a brand new high-speed rail system and we don't. This is the real "China Story" our media should be telling--not some minor derailment "spin job".

Joe

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most of us realize a fee press does not exist in
> China. They are a totalitarian, Communist,
> atheistic, State. Why be surprised that they
> would "cover up" a minor train wreck.(yes, a high
> speed derailment, off an embankment, with only 39
> fatalities, does not qualify as a catastrophe).
>
> My surprise (disgust, really), is why our media,
> like the WashPost, fail to tell us that this
> Communist state is also holding our debt and
> taking our jobs; and,that they have a brand new
> high-speed rail system and we don't. This is the
> real "China Story" our media should be
> telling--not some minor derailment "spin job".
>
> Joe


Washington Post has done 104 articles in the past five years which involved "China High Speed Rail" including this one which compared Chinese rail progress to Maryland's lack of progress. It noted the failure of MD to authorize higher taxes to pay for rail or highway improvements. From February of this year:

>>The group of about 80 transportation experts, headed by Norman Y. Mineta and Samuel K. Skinner, estimated that an additional $134 billion to $262 billion must be spent per year through 2035 to rebuild and improve the nation's roads, rail systems and air transportation.

As U.S. investment in preservation and development of transportation infrastructure lags far behind that of China, Russia and European nations, they concluded that it will lead to "a steady erosion of the social and economic foundations for American prosperity in the long run."

In 2009, China spent an estimated $350 billion on infrastructure. Europe spent $350 billion in a five-year period to modernize seaports, expand airports and high-speed rail lines, and reconfigure city centers. Brazil has invested more than $240 billion in infrastructure in the past three years and expects to exceed that amount by $100 billion over the next three years. <<

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/01/AR2011020102824.html

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
>
>
> Washington Post has done 104 articles in the past
> five years which involved "China High Speed Rail"
> including this one which compared Chinese rail
> progress to Maryland's lack of progress. It noted
> the failure of MD to authorize higher taxes to pay
> for rail or highway improvements. From February of
> this year:
>
> >>The group of about 80 transportation experts,
> headed by Norman Y. Mineta and Samuel K. Skinner,
> estimated that an additional $134 billion to $262
> billion must be spent per year through 2035 to
> rebuild and improve the nation's roads, rail
> systems and air transportation.


Is that the same "Norman Y. Mineta" who was in Chicago Union Station as Secretary of Transportation trying to get through his talking points on why Amtrak should be downsized/defunded?
What has changed? :-)

I think Lackawanna is being a tad selective with his example from the Post on infrastructure spending. As a long time subscriber to the Post, what I find particularly noteworthy is the Post's strident editorial policy against high speed rail. The recent accident in China has been used twice now - and even though this current example purports to be about democracy and press freedom, you can't ignore the undercurrent of anti high speed sentiment. As far as I can surmise, the Post wishes to associate in the minds of the reader the idea that China's huge, expensive, socialistic, non-transparent, non-economical, and somewhat unsafe high speed initiative is exactly the same as any other nation's program, including France, Spain, Japan, etc. This is obviously not the case and seems more to me to be yet another attempt to birth strangle high speed rail in this country. Sad to me that the Post can not get on the right side with this critical issue.

hazegray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> >
> >
> > Washington Post has done 104 articles in the
> past
> > five years which involved "China High Speed
> Rail"
> > including this one which compared Chinese rail
> > progress to Maryland's lack of progress. It
> noted
> > the failure of MD to authorize higher taxes to
> pay
> > for rail or highway improvements. From February
> of
> > this year:
> >
> > >>The group of about 80 transportation experts,
> > headed by Norman Y. Mineta and Samuel K.
> Skinner,
> > estimated that an additional $134 billion to
> $262
> > billion must be spent per year through 2035 to
> > rebuild and improve the nation's roads, rail
> > systems and air transportation.
>
>
> Is that the same "Norman Y. Mineta" who was in
> Chicago Union Station as Secretary of
> Transportation trying to get through his talking
> points on why Amtrak should be downsized/defunded?
>
> What has changed? :-)


same guy. I suspect this gig has a bigger paycheck.

hazegray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> >
> >
> > Washington Post has done 104 articles in the
> past
> > five years which involved "China High Speed
> Rail"
> > including this one which compared Chinese rail
> > progress to Maryland's lack of progress. It
> noted
> > the failure of MD to authorize higher taxes to
> pay
> > for rail or highway improvements. From February
> of
> > this year:
> >
> > >>The group of about 80 transportation experts,
> > headed by Norman Y. Mineta and Samuel K.
> Skinner,
> > estimated that an additional $134 billion to
> $262
> > billion must be spent per year through 2035 to
> > rebuild and improve the nation's roads, rail
> > systems and air transportation.
>
>
> Is that the same "Norman Y. Mineta" who was in
> Chicago Union Station as Secretary of
> Transportation trying to get through his talking
> points on why Amtrak should be downsized/defunded?
>
> What has changed? :-)

San Jose "International" Airport has been renamed after him after he left that post, and nearby Highway 85 is named after him also, but nothing rail-related is named Mineta that I know of.

Actually, not much might have changed since we aren't seeing a breakdown of how much of that $134-262 billion is actually for rail.

And as posted above, Washington Post editors have mostly been anti-HSR. So it suits them just fine to use passenger rail as a tool to talk about what's going on in China. Maybe they should focus on what's going on at home, the censorship of moderate voices in America? Just because we allow two EXTREME sides to speak loudly in the country does not mean we don't have propaganda either?

I wouldn't get too upset at the lack of investment in infrastructure here in the US lately until we get our jobs back from china. How do you think they can afford stuff like the extensive HSR system? It is because of all of the jobs wwe have given to them. The US us broke because we can't tax income that us not earned iin the US.
Think about it. look at Walmart or target. What jobs revolve around one of their stores? You have temporary construction work to build the store, transportation jobs to get merchandise from the port to the store. After that it is low income jobs to staff the store. A HUGE percentage of the stuff sold in these stores us made in china. The sale of all of these goods does help some in our country but largely benefits the Chinese!
I like certain cheap goods as much as the rest of us but this model is very destructive to our economy. It will only get worse unless something drastic changes.

Posted from BlackBerry

You can run but you can't hide forever(economically). Whether HSR in China as implemented is a solid investment will play out in the next 5-10 years. I would think the greatest need in China is to move LARGE numbers of people efficiently and with cost effectiveness. HSR by its nature reduces both of these by placing a great emphasis on speed.

It is a basic principle of Central planned economies to build showcases, time will tell on this.

Bob

caprail:

Well said! If one cares to pay attention, you will become aware that the Media, be it Fox News or the NY Times; Rush Limbaugh or Rachel Madow, are all spinning, spinning, spinning--night and day. All have an agenda they're trying to sell us. Most rail fans, I think, have caught on to this by now.

In a way, I'm grateful for the constant posting of these anti-rail articles, because it gives rail backers like me a chance to point out the hidden agenda of some of these "talking heads".

Norman Minetta was one of these spin merchants. I remember his mantra was "nobody rides trains", which he must have repeated a thousand times in the Media. He frequently referred to the Empire Builder as being "empty", even though it selling out and was Amtrak's most traveled LD trains. Spin merchants stop at nothing.

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/11 13:14 by floridajoe2001.

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> caprail:
>
> Well said! If one cares to pay attention, you
> will become aware that the Media, be it Fox News
> or the NY Times; Rush Limbaugh or Rachel Madow,
> are all spinning, spinning, spinning--night and
> day. All have an agenda they're trying to sell
> us. Most rail fans, I think, have caught on to
> this by now.
>
> In a way, I'm grateful for the constant posting of
> these anti-rail articles, because it gives rail
> backers like me a chance to point out the hidden
> agenda of some of these "talking heads".
>
> Norman Minetta was one of these spin merchants. I
> remember his mantra was "nobody rides trains",
> which he must have repeated a thousand times in
> the Media. He frequently referred to the Empire
> Builder as being "empty", even though it selling
> out and was Amtrak's most traveled LD trains.
> Spin merchants stop at nothing.
>
> Joe

Joe, for once agree pretty much, lots of spin for political reasons and hopefully people will tune out some of it, except I think it is incorrect to equate anti-HSR with anti-rail.

Bob

So, articles like the one cited in the Washington Post favoring Chinese High Speed Rail and urging Maryland to emulate it with substantial funding are just "spin". That makes no sense.

For months, we've heard on TO that the Chinese high speed rail is something the US should emulate, and we're becoming a third rail country for not having it. In spite of people like the Japanese, who know HSR, saying the Chinese were cutting corners, running trains too fast for their signals, etc.

WaPo cited the Japanese comments long before the current accident. And, was cited here as "sour grapes" for criticizing Chinese technology innovation (or theft, take your pick)

With all being said ... who couldn't see this coming ... the Chinese want to be first ATTTT ALLLL COST(and i can't emphasize that enough) to prove to the world that they are a superior society that can compete in big big global world ... but with rushing to try to be first consequences are surely paid for not doing things the right way just to prove a point

I don't think the Chinese have yet met a corner they wouldn't cut, and their government looks the other way, if not actively encourages it, until somebody gets caught, at which point they do mass firings and show trials with executions to prove they're not corrupt. Melamine in your baby formula, anyone?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/11 14:28 by toledopatch.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, articles like the one cited in the Washington
> Post favoring Chinese High Speed Rail and urging
> Maryland to emulate it with substantial funding
> are just "spin". That makes no sense.
>
> For months, we've heard on TO that the Chinese
> high speed rail is something the US should
> emulate, and we're becoming a third rail country
> for not having it. In spite of people like the
> Japanese, who know HSR, saying the Chinese were
> cutting corners, running trains too fast for their
> signals, etc.
>
> WaPo cited the Japanese comments long before the
> current accident. And, was cited here as "sour
> grapes" for criticizing Chinese technology
> innovation (or theft, take your pick)

Well, I got the Japanese comments in the native Japanese long time ago, too, so whether WaPo posted it or not to me is irrelevant. As a responsible mass media organization, they deserve brownie points for posting opposing point of view. :-)

But they really need to focus on US, and less on China, because to me, it is more smokes and mirrors rather than a spark for us to start solving problems. I would have been less critical had the editorials warned us against tendencies to take short cuts for the sake of bottom line or patriotism, instead of the hidden chest-beating message, which was "we are better, they are not."

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (snip)
>
> But they really need to focus on US, and less on
> China, because to me, it is more smokes and
> mirrors rather than a spark for us to start
> solving problems. I would have been less critical
> had the editorials warned us against tendencies to
> take short cuts for the sake of bottom line or
> patriotism, instead of the hidden chest-beating
> message, which was "we are better, they are not."

Completely valid points, well presented.

I tend to be sensitive to the steady drumbeat on TO that "China has HSR, so we need it, too" without considering the differences in the societies and the choices made in allocating resources.

It's easy for someone in Washington DC to bitch about HSR, they already have it.

Also there is an easy way for us to get our economy and jobs back here. The government needs to simply make it more expensive to do business over there than it is here. You will piss off a lot of people, but that is what is in the best interest of the American People. We need to start cashing checks again instead of writing them.