Passenger Trains > Wider tush = tighter seating, says NY subways, MetroNo

The NY Times has an article today about how the increasing width of Americans has affected the transit and rail industries. As Americans grow heavier and wider, seats have not increased in width. The result is uncomfortable passengers, fights over folks spilling onto neighboring seats, bulky winter coats, etc.

The practical issues include not being able to import certain Mercedes and Hino bus designs to the US. Designed for European tushes, Americans complained the seats were too narrow. MetroNorth has decided to keep the seat width in its M-9 rail cars the same as older cars, but has increased the weight requirement to 400 pounds. The three seat model remains at 58 inches, but the middle seat will be designed to "look" wider.

Amtrak's order for 25 new dining cars will include seating for larger passengers, the article says.

>>New Jersey Transit decided to make wider seats a priority after hearing from riders, a spokesman, John D’Urso, said. The agency took the request to the manufacturer Bombardier, which had its seat maker, Kustom Seating, build the seats. Bill Luebke, manager of engineering for Kustom Seating, of Bellwood, Ill., said the company designed the seats to be comfortable for riders ranging from a woman in the 5th percentile to a man in the 95th percentile. <<

and

>>New Jersey Transit has a five-year plan to add 100 double-decker train cars that have seats 2.2 inches wider than the 17.55-inch seats found in its single-deck trains; the seating configuration has been changed to two seats on either side of the aisle, rather than three on one side and two on the other.

Amtrak intends to introduce “designs that will be able to accommodate the larger-sized passengers” on 25 new dining cars starting next year, said a spokesman, Cliff Cole. "<<

I'm not sure the NJ Transit proposal was properly conveyed in this article, as the multilevel trains already have two by two seating. Many single level cars are indeed 3 by 2. Narrowing the already tiny aisle on the ML cars by 8.8 inches (4 seats at 2.2 inches each) would be very material. On a single level train, dropping one 17.5 inch seat and adding 8.8 inches could be a bonanza...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/16/nyregion/transit-agencies-in-new-york-area-consider-wider-seats.html?pagewanted=1&amp;ref=nyregion

Maybe we should modify the tushes instead of the seats.

Maybe airlines should weigh passengers and charge them accordingly, just like they do for checked baggage. Not fair? Why not?

seaboardc30-7 Wrote:
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> Maybe airlines should weigh passengers and charge
> them accordingly, just like they do for checked
> baggage. Not fair? Why not?


Many smaller air carriers do exactly that. Flying from Skagway to Juneau, each of the 5 passengers was weighed, and that determined where you were seated. My wife was not pleased. Luggage was also weighed, and that determined where in the cargo areas it would be placed.

US Airways learned this lesson the hard way. A commuter plane from Charlotte to Pinehurst NC used average weights for passengers and luggage, not weighing each. Pinehurst is a golf destination, and the average passenger weighed about 40 pounds more than the formula suggested. Other than the pilot, there were no females, and each passenger had a golf bag, adding another 40 pounds plus a suitcase, etc.

I think a few people survived, but most died...

Subsequently, a new formula for certain golf, ski, etc destinations was introduced.

Weight and Balance have always mattered. Modern aircraft usually have an ample reserve of power, so weight n balance can be 'averaged'. With smaller planes, the reserve is not large. So moe care is in order.

Yes, we are fatter. But we are also taller, so even a person with a well proportioned physique is going to have a wider tusch.

I listen to the local fire dept scanner and hear more and more calls for "lifting assistance."

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

The upper deck on the NJ Transit multilevel trains can get very cramped for people of size. height or weight.

The curve of the roof line and the vestigial overhead storage rack create a problem in exiting for anybody over about 5'10".

>>Amtrak intends to introduce “designs that will be able to accommodate the larger-sized passengers” on 25 new dining cars starting next year, said a spokesman, Cliff Cole. "<<

Maybe Amtrak needs to provide their super-sized passengers with a Weight Watchers menu, too!

I took out a tape measure and found the following to be true comparing an LIRR M-7 to a NJT MLV, which I did on a round-trip to LI one day:

- Seat depth on the LIRR (and MNRR) is 2" more than NJT
- Width of seat is EXACTLY the same on both systems, the only difference being 2" gap between seat cushions on NJT and between the seat and the wall. (MTA has an all across bench)

NJT, as usual, is full of $hyt. MLV's are nothing but a lame excuse not to buy MU's.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> I took out a tape measure and found the following
> to be true comparing an LIRR M-7 to a NJT MLV,
> which I did on a round-trip to LI one day:
>
> - Seat depth on the LIRR (and MNRR) is 2" more
> than NJT
> - Width of seat is EXACTLY the same on both
> systems, the only difference being 2" gap between
> seat cushions on NJT and between the seat and the
> wall. (MTA has an all across bench)
>
> NJT, as usual, is full of $hyt. MLV's are nothing
> but a lame excuse not to buy MU's.


The 17.55" seat is used on the 3 x 2 coaches and MU sets. I think the article said the ML seats are 20 inches wide on NJ Transit

calzephyr48 Wrote:
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> Maybe Amtrak needs to provide their super-sized
> passengers with a Weight Watchers menu, too!

No, Amtrak needs to sell them as much food and beverages as it can.

But then some at Amtrak think if they lose $2 per hot dog, they should sell as few as possible, or on the Albany trains, don't give them anything, not even dixie cups at the water cooler.

Nothing new: Airbus designed the 320 family with a wider interior cabin than the Boeing 727/737/757. Specifics vary from one airline to another, but seats tend to be slightly wider on the 320. I can tell the difference.