Passenger Trains > Chris Elliott: Amtrak "sold a bill of goods"

Consumer travel advocate Chris Elliott fields another complaint about dirty, decrepit conditions aboard Amtrak's California Zephyr:

www.elliott.org
February 17, 2012

> Question: We recently traveled on Amtrak’s California Zephyr from Chicago to Sacramento. It was not a good experience.
>
> When we entered the sleeper bedroom, it was readily apparent that the...condition of the car was very poor...the latch on the bathroom
> door had a problem...my wife...was trapped. The door could only be opened from the outside.

(the attendant moved the passengers to another bedroom)

> The new room was no better. The carpet was soaked. An attendant told us that a drink was spilled in that room and gave us towels to put on
> the floor as a second carpet. It didn’t work too well. We had to keep our shoes on or suffer wet feet whenever we were in the room.
>
> Both bedrooms were decrepit. They looked totally worn out and unclean. We were told when we booked that we would have to change
> cars in Denver, so we decided that we could suffer through one night.
>
> But our bedroom in Denver was even worse. The stench inside the car was almost unbearable...I contacted Marriott and secured a room for
> the night in Salt Lake City. I also called the airline and booked a flight for the next day. When we arrived at Salt Lake City at around
> midnight, we left the train...
>
> I’ve written to Amtrak, asking for a refund. It sent me two vouchers for $400. I want my money back. Can you help? — David Battas,
> Indianapolis

Answer from Chris Elliott:

> Amtrak knows that the first-class service on its Zephyr needs a little work. According to a September 2010 Performance Improvement
> Plan, an upgrade of its trains is under way, but not in time for your trip.
>
> Amtrak’s refund policy on unused tickets can be found on its website. The company is technically right: Your accommodation charge wouldn’t
> have been refundable in your situation, since you canceled your trip less than seven days before your departure. There’s no mention of
> partial refunds for passengers who disembark before the end of their trip.
>
> But that’s beside the point. Amtrak promises a “more luxurious experience” on the Zephyr, which it calls “one of the most beautiful
> train tips in all of North America.” Maybe it’s just referring to the outdoor scenery.
>
> Could this have been avoided? Maybe. The online reviews on the Zephyr are mixed, at best. Reading them might have prompted you to avoid
> the entire experience, or at least waited until the renovations were complete.
>
> Clearly, you were sold a bill of goods. Amtrak’s terms don’t apply because it breached its own contract, giving you a substandard
> product for your first-class fare. I think you’re owed a full refund.
>
> I contacted Amtrak on your behalf, and it agreed. It refunded your entire train ticket.

Full story:

http://www.elliott.org/the-troubleshooter/no-refund-for-derailed-amtrak-trip/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/12 23:25 by GenePoon.

It's nice that Amtrak refunded the guy's fare after a well known consumer advocate complained, but the right thing would have been to refund the fare or some part of it when the conditions became known.

A new scam in the hotel world is to complain of bed bugs that do not exist and get a credit or refund. Hotels are on alert. Is it possible i have led a charmed life and never experienced any of the problems mentioned in your post!? Yes.

On-board horror stories like this one have to be more damaging to Amtrak's reputation than late trains are. I don't think most people expect to arrive on-time on a long-distance train, and most delays are not Amtrak's fault. But what they do expect are clean, pleasant accommodations -- not wet floors and foul odors and evasive responses when such conditions are found wanting by passengers.

toledopatch is exactly right. Passengers will usually forgive late trains, but they won't ever excuse poor accommodations or malfunctioning basic functions inside the car. It sounds like the attendant tried to work past the problems with the car, but that's playing catch-up, not preventing the problem in the first place.

The most hurtful evidence is Chris Elliott's comment about how it could have been avoided in the first place, saying "Online reviews have been mixed...Reading them might have prompted you to avoid the entire experience." On The Zephyr? One of Amtrak's premier show-off-the-service trains? With some of the most beautiful scenery? That's just an indictment.

Read this again, and then think about Amtrak's long-distance train future: "Could this have been avoided? Maybe. The online reviews on the Zephyr are mixed, at best. Reading them might have prompted you to avoid the entire experience, or at least waited until the renovations were complete."

"Reading them might have prompted you to avoid the entire experience." I've never read a more damning indictment of Amtrak's long-distance trains, especially one with the potential of The California Zephyr.

Here's a question for the Trainorders community: Would you read that opinion about The Canadian? It's a cruise train and that's basically what the Zephyr is and certainly could be. The Canadian provides reasonably inexpensive coach transportation for the necessary local travel, but its sleeper fares are extremely high, but its service is regarded as excellent, so the sleeper clientele makes a decision based on value for money. Why isn't the Zephyr, along with the Builder, Chief and Starlight, the same? Provide basic, reasonably priced coach service for the basic transportation, and then provide what-the-market-will-bear sleeper/diner service for the cruise market. But if you're going to charge high prices, as Amtrak does in the sleepers, it needs to provide consistently clean, comfortable, mechanically sound equipment.

Read Chris Elliott's comments again, and think about Amtrak's long-distance train future. I hope the folks at 60 Massachusetts Avenue in Washington are reading that comment.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/12 07:07 by knotch8.

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On-board horror stories like this one have to be
> more damaging to Amtrak's reputation than late
> trains are. I don't think most people expect to
> arrive on-time on a long-distance train, and most
> delays are not Amtrak's fault. But what they do
> expect are clean, pleasant accommodations -- not
> wet floors and foul odors and evasive responses
> when such conditions are found wanting by
> passengers.

yes.

Christopher Elliott is a nationally syndicated travel columnist (via Tribune media) whose work appears weekly in dozens of local newspaper travel sections, as well as his own online column.

Credible reports like this do a huge amount of damage to Amtrak's claim of providing a quality travel experience.

Amtrak had several opportunities to make this situation right, and blew every one of them.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's nice that Amtrak refunded the guy's fare after a well known consumer advocate complained,
> but the right thing would have been to refund the fare or some part of it when the conditions became
> known.

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On-board horror stories like this one have to be more damaging to Amtrak's reputation than late
> trains are. I don't think most people expect to arrive on-time on a long-distance train, and most
> delays are not Amtrak's fault. But what they do expect are clean, pleasant accommodations -- not
> wet floors and foul odors and evasive responses when such conditions are found wanting by
> passengers.

=========================================================

The story being told is one of neglect. Amtrak management seems to think it is enough to simply Band-Aid® the problem
by handing out refunds instead of investing in the equipment. Meanwhile the bad reports drive off potential customers,
pushing revenues down.

Even Chris Elliott has a different tone about dirty Amtrak equipment this time around, than he did in the prior incident when
one of his readers complained about bad conditions on the California Zephyr. That time, he even let his readers participate
in a poll as to whether he should intervene with Amtrak on behalf of the passenger. A majority of readers, but by no means
a landslide, voted that he shouldn't; but he's obviously fed up now, and most of his readers may be, too.

The ultimate result of the neglect: lower ridership, greater losses both from reduced revenue and from increased refunds, and
more ammunition for the anti-long distance, pro-Northeast Corridor forces that want all of Amtrak's eggs in the Northeastern
basket. Maybe before that, a refusal to fund specific long-distance routes by rejecting Amtrak's grant requests for operating
subsidy? Maybe "the fix is in" between Amtrak and its "friendly" contacts in the Executive Branch to do in the long distance
network by Executive Department fiat. I do not put ANYTHING beyond the politicians...

There is a interior rebuilding program for Superliner sleepers going on at Beech Grove. Clearly it is necessary. But Amtrak is aware of the this problem and is taking action.

As for handling complaints, they did not do as well. Daze

Requesting refunds because of perceived failures of the hospitality industry have become rampant. Often these requests say more about the person requesting them than the actual situation. Remember the "one inch of hair and mold" on the seats a while back? There is also a tendency to exaggerate problems in the hope of strengthening one's case.

Make no mistake, Amtrak can do a lot better. But I have just completed my fourth trip on the Southwest Chief in the last two weeks (and my twelfth in the last year) and do not seem to encounter these problems, or very very rarely.

According to Trains Newswire, Iowa Pacific is planning to provide first class Pullman service on the City of New Orleans and the Lake Shore Limited long distance train beginning this fall. Maybe we will see if this is a solution to long distance overnight sleeping car service -- maintain long distance trains for Amtrak coach and have private operators provide first class sleeping car service vs. the poor to mediocre service now provided on most LD trains (Starlight and maybe Empire Builder excepted).

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe "the fix is in" between Amtrak and
> its "friendly" contacts in the Executive Branch to
> do in the long distance
> network by Executive Department fiat.

Friendly? Hardly!
Were it not for us pesky voters, Obama (and most every president serving during it's existence) would dump Amtrak as fast as one could press the "Delete" button.

As for private operators offering truly 1st class service: best of luck. It's been tried before. Apparently it isn't worth the cost premium to enough folks to sustain the concept.

RailNet802, out

Cumbresfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to Trains Newswire, Iowa Pacific is
> planning to provide first class Pullman service on
> the City of New Orleans and the Lake Shore Limited
> long distance train beginning this fall.

What will its frequency be? Are we talking a regular schedule with departures on certain days or daily, or a irregular schedule of excursions?

I hope Mr. Ellis is successful with this venture, whatever the details are.

kk5ol Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> As for private operators offering truly 1st class
> service: best of luck. It's been tried before.
> Apparently it isn't worth the cost premium to
> enough folks to sustain the concept.
>
> RailNet802, out

That's my take on it--tried before, several times. Time will tell, however.

As for the basic complaint here, it's not at all clear what the time frame that this occurred in was, but some changes have occurred in Chicago where certain management personnel have been made personally responsible for certain trains' departure readiness. This was done to address commissary-related problems, but hopefully this has expanded. If this was in place at the time these folks made their trip, and IF the train actually departed Chicago with the stated defects, somebody got some 'splainin' to do. If that carpet was still wet 24 hours later it doesn't sound like a spilt drink to me. More likely freeze damage or other leaky plumbing. Also, not familiar with Superliners here, but in days of yore, the carpets in many sleepers were made to be taken up and replaced quickly in the event of a mishap.

Amtrak has a form in each car to log defects. The QC manager should review and sign off that all defects have been fixed before that car departs. In the case of the defective bathroom lock, it's possible that nobody brought it to the attendant's attention until that trip. It seems to me unlikely that it would be discovered in the course of a routine mechanical walk-through. Just curious: was the wet carpet outside the bathroom door? With the defective lock, perhaps the previous occupant showered with the door open?

On the other hand, it sounds like the defective lock might have come in handy in this case (think Ethel Merman in "It's a Mad mad mad mad world".)

In the case of the stench, which I assume is a sewage odor, the car never should have left Chicago that way (and it may not have). It could have occurred enroute, however, and for any number of reasons, from non-functioning vacuum pump to plugged toilet(s) to unconcerned car attendant, just to name a few. Again, the car passes thru mechanical service points along the way and those kinds of things should be taken very seriously with every attempt made to correct or make things right by the passenger.

Here Amtrak could take a lesson from Southwest Airlines. Their employees will take the initiative and collect a card or other ID information from each passenger who has experienced less than great travel due to a faux pas on the part of the company. A personal letter of apology and some form of compensation follow without having to write a complaint letter.

And...as has been pointed out by others in this thread, it may just be possible that the passengers were, shall we say, "hypersensitive" and were looking to get a discount on their trip. Here again an empowered attendant or an on-board service manager could go a long way with an "I agree" or "this passenger is just blowing smoke", signed, on the complaint form.

Amtrak needs a policy for compensating passengers who flee scary accommodations.

For 40 years Amtrak still cannot do regular equipment maintenance to a high standard. Beech Grove can put forth wonderful cars, but they need daily intensive maintenance. When the train hits Oakland and Chicago, it needs 8 hours of intense scrutiny and work.

Yes, that means all night maintenance in both situations.

> Chris Elliott: Amtrak "sold a bill of goods"


He was sometimes funny but usually kind of weird on David Letterman's show.

When I book a sleeper I expect a clean car and excellent service from my attendant. I posted recently about my horrible experience with my sleeper attendant on train 27 from CHI to PDX. Horrible service but no problems with the car itself. My return was with a wonderful attendant named Paul on 28 from PDX to CHI. The car was average but the service outstanding. I have had super clean cars with horrible service and broken cars with wonderful service. Now there is no excuse for bad service or cars that leave CHI with mechanical problems. If the sleeper is broken either fix it or do not send it out, that simple.

Amtrak needs to take the needs of its sleeper passengers into consideration. We pay for superior service and expect the same.

And outside the Northeast Corridor very few Amtrak employees even know what Amtrak Guest Rewards Select Plus is. A hotel usually does recognize it's most frequent guests and Amtrak should do the same. I have checked into the Metropolitan Lounge in CHI at least 100 times and with the same agent at least 20 times and each time I hand her my ticket and my AGR Select Plus card. She always asks if this is my first visit to the lounge and often asks if this is my first train trip. I turn around to check my bag and the attendant there usually calls me by name and does remember me. The key here is to offer consistent service, especially to your frequent riders.

And as far as Amtrak Guest Rewards discounts for us AGR Select Plus members go while I do appreciate the coupons and freebies that are given there is NEVER a discount for any type of sleeper fare. All discounts are mostly for coach travel, a few for business class and a few for Acela travel. Even an occasional 10% sleeper discount would be appreciated.

Keith Hunter
FOREST CITY, IA

Is this Chris Elliot, travel reporter, the same Chris Elliot, son of Bob Elliot of the Bob and Ray
comedy team??

Frank30