Passenger Trains > 24 hour Dining Car - When you're hungry, you're hungry

http://www.unitedrail.org/2012/08/14/amtraks-food-what-can-they-do-how-about-24-hour-service-when-youre-hungry-youre-hungry/

Amtrak’s Food & Beverage service is under fire; what can they do? How about 24 hour service, “When You’re Hungry, You’re Hungry”!
August 14th, 2012 J. Bruce Richardson
Commentary by Russ Jackson, URPA-RailPAC, Dallas, Texas


Premise

Food and Beverage availability on long distance trains is essential and its existence is not negotiable; only the “how it is done” is.


Problem stated

“On Amtrak’s western long distance trains, the average trip spans three to four meal periods. People may want to go fast, but not to have to ‘fast.’ No food means no customers. But, the economic problem can and must be solved in a way that both radically increases the efficiency of any existing dining car service, and allows for growth in business from adding passenger cars to existing trains, all within the existing structure of the dining cars that Amtrak has.” — Andrew C. Selden

Analysis

On August 2, 2012, The U.S. House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee held a hearing to discuss this topic. The Chairman, John Mica, R-FL, is known to oppose almost everything about Amtrak except the Northeast Corridor. Amtrak CEO, Joseph Boardman was on the panel that testified, and his task was to defend the company’s service to its on board customers, many of whom are traveling long distances and have traditionally and rightly had food and beverage service available. Unfortunately, what resulted from this hearing, as has happened too many times before, were statistics that made the F & B service and Amtrak look bad: Amtrak “lost” $833 million on F & B services in the past ten years. Mica pointed out that it “costs taxpayers $3.40 for each can of soda” sold on trains, that there are huge losses per employee, and in a later event called a “stunt,” he went to a McDonalds with TV and reporters tagging along where he bought a drink and a hamburger for a dollar each, “but if you buy it on Amtrak it would cost taxpayers $6.65.” Politically, this is what Amtrak is up against for the foreseeable future although John Mica will not return as Chairman. No matter that the Amtrak cheeseburger is table-served in a sit-down facility that is in motion, that it is a real luncheon meal including lettuce, tomato, condiments, chips, and a drink, and is one of the best items on Amtrak’s dining car menu while McDonald’s is just a hamburger without any extras.

Was there anything positive to come out of that hearing? Well, yes, Amtrak’s IG testified that beginning October 1, 2012, as part of a company-wide reorganization all Amtrak food management functions will be transferred solely to Operations instead of being divided with Marketing. He has also recommended they try a pilot program to experiment with a cashless payment system, which is designed to stop employee theft but will inconvenience many riders and cause further lost sales. While theft has been a problem, it has been addressed and that effort appears to be paying off. Items like these are a re-stacking of the deck chairs with limited impact. There was nothing said in that hearing or in subsequent reporting that indicated a “growth” attitude at Amtrak, which would add revenue without sacrificing service to passengers.

For decades rail advocacy organizations like RailPAC and URPA have put forth pleas and evidence that revenue growth is basic to the future success of Amtrak and passenger rail. For example, the simple idea of adding an additional car to a train when reservations show the train on a specific date is sold out well in advance. In a letter to RailPAC a recently a retired Amtrak official cited the “company line” in reply to Dick Spotswood’s article about splitting the company into two entities which is posted on www.railpac.org and has been published in the Steel Wheels newsletter. The writer cited Mr. Spotswood’s list of costs of adding a car, but adding it also requires “A 10% revenue transfer to the train’s dining car. Sleeper revenue transfer and coach passenger car cash sales fall far short of offsetting the large cost of the dining car. Add another revenue car and you not only need an attendant but an Assistant Conductor.” So? There is no mention of the additional revenue obtained if one car is added to an already sold-out train on a spot basis. Sure, adding an additional car to all trains would add expenses, but has anyone figured out the enhanced revenue potential from doing so? Where is the “let’s try it” mentality?

Solution

There are positive, simple things that Amtrak could be doing to not only improve its financial results but also improve service to more customers, and, if implemented would result in Amtrak seeing F & B service as a “revenue center,” not a cost center. (These items are in the When You’re Hungry Plan):

“Bring in higher-quality, distinctive, regional “premium” products that carry a higher margin. This was done in the Pacific Northwest, but mostly due to prodding by state partners; make sure the lounge cars and dining cars are open longer hours to bring in cash customers, not just the first-class passengers, who have already paid for meals in their ticket price. Every cash customer that comes through the door is gravy for the company, and a source of tips for the employees; eliminate the ridiculous early closings because employees want to go off duty the instant the train arrives in a terminal; eliminate the herd mentality of “reservations” for half-empty dining cars and rigidly fixed seating times that mostly exist to make things easier for employees; and eliminate the practice of “forced” seating of strangers together at the same table. This is a time-honored “railroad” practice that many riders like because they meet interesting people, but making it optional would remove a barrier for others.” — Paul Wilson

Some have proposed “privatizing” the F & B service on Amtrak. RailPAC’s Anthony Lee points out “In Europe privatized service exists on some overnight trains, and meal and catering services in daytime trains of France, Italy, Spain, Portugal and on Eurostar services operating under Newrest wagon-lits.” The likelihood of that being accomplished here is very low. URPA’s Andrew C. Selden writes that “Private contractors won’t come near Amtrak business as long as they have to deal with Amtrak’s union labor–costs, work rules (productivity), and intimidation. Remember the (failed) Subway Sandwich experiment to put food on the Empire Corridor trains?” That is an unnecessary fight that Amtrak need not get into. It isn’t the labor or food costs that are the problem it’s that the dining cars are open and serving only 10 hours a day, and the rest of the time are not generating a dime of revenue!

The “When You’re Hungry, You’re Hungry” 24-Hour Plan

One of those “simpler things” was actually accomplished on Amtrak’s Sunset Limited trains at the end of the 1990′s by URPA’s Bruce Richardson when he worked as a marketing consultant for Amtrak. At that time Trains 1 and 2 ran across the continent, from Florida to California, which they should be doing today, and were Tri-weekly, while they should be daily. This was an experiment that worked to prove the concept!:

“Back at the end of the 1990s on the Sunset Limited a number of tests of running a 24-hour dining car were successfully completed. The passengers liked it, the employees liked it, the unions agreed to the tests. Revenues were up, employees were less stressed because passengers came into the dining car in a natural progression instead of a rigid reservations system, and employee tips were up because of passenger satisfaction. After management changes, the experiments died simply because of the new managers saying, ‘not invented here.’ ” — Bruce Richardson’s 2012 updated commentary on www.unitedrail.com

Employees like the 24-hour concept because there was the virtual elimination of peak times in the dining car. Employees are always on duty and one shift assumes responsibility from the other, (so that) no fatigue-enducing overtime is necessary.

Guests like the concept because they are allowed to eat when they want to, especially during breakfast and dinner meal times. Many guests will skip lunch and just eat two meals per day, and this makes possible a bedtime snack. The Sunset Limited serves major markets during nocturnal hours, so having the dining car open for boarding and detraining guests during these stop times makes it possible for those passengers to have a meal. In addition, safety and security were enhanced by providing all guests with a central location on the train where a member of the OBS crew can be found in time of need 24 hours a day.

The company benefits from the concept because both guests and employees have already embraced the concept as a result of testing the ideas, guests have more options with an open dining car, virtually all overtime is eliminated, costs are cut while providing a higher level of service, and employees offer better performance because of more sleep and rest. There are more opportunities for more services to be offered.

Meal times under this plan are Breakfast from 6 to 11 a.m., Daytime dining 11 to 5 p.m., Casual dining 5 to 6 p.m., Dining at “Sunset” 6 to 9:30, and Dining Before Sunrise 9:30 p.m. to 6 a.m. (The most popular item overnight in the experiment was a fresh bacon-fried egg-cheese sandwich on toast ‘with a hint of mayo’!) Sleeping car service would be 24 hours a day, with one attendant always on duty monitoring all cars. Work hours for the crew are staggered, giving employees down time at night on a staggered basis.

Already the objections can be heard, that this plan must increase costs. And it does add the requirement for two additional employees per trip to work the overnight hours, but the enhanced revenue pays for itself and more: In 1999 dollars, the projected revenue increase on the tri-weekly trains over the previous year was over $2 million, Labor expenses were nearly static, cost of food and supplies increased slightly, but the loss per meal or item was reduced from $9 to $.66. That’s 66 cents! How’s that, you cost cutters! Growth!!

Comment

Add two things and it is perfect: Have the cheeseburger meal available 24 hours a day, not just at lunch, and for safety sake sell alcoholic beverages only when food items from the menu are ordered. This plan is so simple and so logical in its concept it is amazing that it died such a bureaucratic death. The expensive failed “Diner Lite” and Cafe Car plans that followed did nothing to improve the problem and we are now facing the likely continuing hostility of the Congress. Many thanks to all our contributors from RailPAC and URPA, and we urge resurrection of this simple plan that adds no food service cars, requires nothing except a reorganization of the existing Food & Beverage service concept, and results in such a dramatic improvement in the financial picture for this service it should be enthusiastically embraced.

Interesting read. All I will say is that the "dining times" and "age-old" rules of Amtrak dining cars and even its cafe/lounge cars needs to be reviewed and re-vamped. The cashless system I go along with, as well as extended meal times. The Lake Shore Limited, in particularly, is one train that could benefit from additional meals served onboard eastbound (dinner eastbound leaving Chicago after dealing with connecting passengers and light dinner upon arriving into NYP). The eastern long distance trains really need to review this as the Viewliner Diners, with their attractive double row of windows is a most attractive benefit than say the Amfleet Diner Lite that is in tow as the "Lounge/Cafe" car.

Howard Johnson realized quite early in the game that travelers want to eat when they want to eat. In a clean restaurant with decent looking waitresses and food that was similar from place to place. The idea of formal meal times wasn't conducive to most auto travelers, nor were 24 hour greasy spoon diners.

The idea of running an Amtrak dining car like a 24 hour restaurant violates so many railroad traditions that it's not even worth arguing about.

IHC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was there anything positive to come out of that
> hearing? Well, yes, Amtrak’s IG testified that
> beginning October 1, 2012, as part of a
> company-wide reorganization all Amtrak food
> management functions will be transferred solely to
> Operations instead of being divided with
> Marketing. He has also recommended they try a
> pilot program to experiment with a cashless
> payment system, which is designed to stop employee
> theft but will inconvenience many riders and cause
> further lost sales. While theft has been a
> problem, it has been addressed and that effort
> appears to be paying off.

Strange, but airline passengers seem to have acclimated to "cashless payment system" quite nicely, inconvenience and all. In fact you can't evan pay for parking at a WMATA lot with cash: credit cards only.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/12 15:51 by hazegray.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Howard Johnson realized quite early in the game
> that travelers want to eat when they want to eat.
> In a clean restaurant with decent looking
> waitresses and food that was similar from place to
> place.

However, as of June 2012 there are only two Howard Johnsons. Many areas have now restaurants with indecent-looking waitresses.

RuleG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Howard Johnson realized quite early in the game
> > that travelers want to eat when they want to
> eat.
> > In a clean restaurant with decent looking
> > waitresses and food that was similar from place
> to
> > place.
>
> However, as of June 2012 there are only two Howard
> Johnsons. Many areas have now restaurants with
> indecent-looking waitresses.

touche

Howard Johnson didn't realize the threat that McDonald's, Wendy's Bob's Big Boy, etc posed to their fundamental business model. The customer was changing preferences in real time, and they were locked in a business that had lost its market.

Never a good place to be...

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Howard Johnson didn't realize the threat that
> McDonald's, Wendy's Bob's Big Boy, etc posed to
> their fundamental business model. The customer was
> changing preferences in real time, and they were
> locked in a business that had lost its market.
>
> Never a good place to be...

A textbook could be written on what went wrong with Howard Johnson. Here are a few things that pop into mind. At one time it was the place for ice cream flavors. HoJo let some upstart become the place for ice cream. The restaurant lost its taste with its use of frozen foods. As for the lodging, inconsistent standards made it unclear what you would get with a stay.

We did not have a Howard Johnson restaurant in my home town growing up, but I have fond memories of stopping at the one in Marietta, GA whenever we went down to Atlanta, or finding them in other places on long road trips.

Why not contract with waffle house for a baggage car conversion for each train.

Posted from Android

I would run a vending machine Cabbage on the rear.
Sit in the engineer's seat and snarf a Snickers
pretending like you're driving a train 79mph backwards!

Yes, but no McD's, Denny's or Fat Boy's has ever replaced the All-You-Can-Eat fried clams Friday's at Ho-Jo's. Mmmmmm.
******
There seems to be the mindset that food & beverage must be a money-loser on Amtrak. I'm not sure that's true. I believe Amtrak needs to bring in some smart hospitality grads with some new ideas like this 24-Hour concept. If the Union brick wall, and buddy-buddy system in Supply can be overcome, some new ideas might work.

It's only a personal opinion, but I like the "sitting with strangers" tradition in the dining car. You would never do this in a restaurant, and I'm not normally such an extrovert to seek out strangers, but the forced seating has made for some really nice dinner conversations on trains for me. Plus, I've never met a dinner partner that I didn't like.

And I don't like most people. Go figure.

Danny Harmon
Tampa


Lackawanna484 Wrote:

> Howard Johnson didn't realize the threat that
> McDonald's, Wendy's Bob's Big Boy, etc posed to
> their fundamental business model. The customer was
> changing preferences in real time, and they were
> locked in a business that had lost its market.
>
> Never a good place to be...

Nice article.

Some things to note: For this "round the clock service" to work, would require more than 2 more employees per train. The dining car alone would require 2 people....a chef and a waiter/waitress. 24hr service for the lounge would also require another person. Right now its one guy working an 18hr shift. Thats 3 people. Awhile ago I think Amtrak had looked at the idea of removing one sleeping car attendant....which I dont think will work. Another thing that I feel needs to come back....and that the OBS Sup. Our conductors/AC's are so task saturated with the operation of the train, and with their certification coming I feel its not conducive for them to always have to handle the "people" issues that occur around the clock on the train. So thats at least 4. OBS Sup would work 6am-11pm and there would be no night shift OBS Sup as the role would be assumed by the conductor since there is usually alot less to deal with. That's also 4 more sleeping accommodations that have to be supplied.

I think personally we should go over to a cashless system ASAP, and as well as a better inventory system. The cashless system would work fine....use your debit or credit card. If you have none, one could show up at a station and buy a card and say, put a $100 on it. Use it on the train for whatever, and when you arrive at your destination, redeem the card and any unused funds would be returned to the customer. Kiosks could be put at unmanned stations for these cards as well. Cash aboard a train must be eliminated entirely....except in emergencies Im sure the conductors would be the only ones to handle cash paid fares.

Sleepers.....I dont know about everywhere else, but both the Meteor and Star trains that I run could use another sleeper on the train. I think if this ever happens as new cars come online, it will serve Amtrak's best interest to restart the 24hr service since serving 3-4 sleepers worth of 1st class customers and others from the coaches using the "herding" method will be a nightmare.

KV1guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nice article.
>
> Some things to note: For this "round the clock
> service" to work, would require more than 2 more
> employees per train. The dining car alone would
> require 2 people....a chef and a waiter/waitress.
> 24hr service for the lounge would also require
> another person. Right now its one guy working an
> 18hr shift. Thats 3 people. Awhile ago I think
> Amtrak had looked at the idea of removing one
> sleeping car attendant....which I dont think will
> work. Another thing that I feel needs to come
> back....and that the OBS Sup. Our conductors/AC's
> are so task saturated with the operation of the
> train, and with their certification coming I feel
> its not conducive for them to always have to
> handle the "people" issues that occur around the
> clock on the train. So thats at least 4. OBS
> Sup would work 6am-11pm and there would be no
> night shift OBS Sup as the role would be assumed
> by the conductor since there is usually alot less
> to deal with. That's also 4 more sleeping
> accommodations that have to be supplied.
>
> I think personally we should go over to a cashless
> system ASAP, and as well as a better inventory
> system. The cashless system would work
> fine....use your debit or credit card. If you
> have none, one could show up at a station and buy
> a card and say, put a $100 on it. Use it on the
> train for whatever, and when you arrive at your
> destination, redeem the card and any unused funds
> would be returned to the customer. Kiosks could
> be put at unmanned stations for these cards as
> well. Cash aboard a train must be eliminated
> entirely....except in emergencies Im sure the
> conductors would be the only ones to handle cash
> paid fares.

These prepaid cards are very easy to implement with most hand held readers. The same kind of devices used on planes and point of sale locations in stores, etc. One advantage is you can set the reader unit to accept transactions up to $20 / $25 etc without having to do an outside verification. The reader docks the customer's money card for $18, and uploads that amount to Amtrak's national system when it gets in cell phone etc range. It's basically a gift card + card reader combination.

The elephant in the room:

"In Europe privatized service exists on some overnight trains, and meal and catering services in daytime trains ..." The likelihood of that being accomplished here is very low. URPA’s Andrew C. Selden writes that “Private contractors won’t come near Amtrak business as long as they have to deal with Amtrak’s union labor–costs, work rules (productivity), and intimidation.

Until Amtrak's union issues are dealt with, all aspects of Amtrak's operation will remain bloated, inefficient and uneconomical, and subject to criticism by Congress and others. Freight railroads also have unions and yet the railroads are able to operate profitably. Whether it is Amtrak's management being unable or unwilling to deal with unions, or the unions believing that their political support in Congress allows for intransigence, can be argued both ways. But the continued poor behavior/work performance of many employees, both in direct passenger contact and in the maintenance/repair areas, leads to calls to eliminate all but a few NEC Amtrak trains. Amtrak never will be profitable but addressing and resolving the long standing cost of labor problems will go a long way to earning the trust of Congress. The other option is eliminating trains which provide necessary transportation in areas of the country outside the major metropolitan areas.

hazegray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IHC Wrote:

>
> Strange, but airline passengers seem to have
> acclimated to "cashless payment system" quite
> nicely, inconvenience and all. In fact you can't
> evan pay for parking at a WMATA lot with cash:
> credit cards only.

I think that cashless is a great idea. But there are going to be some people who do not have a credit or debit card. That is a fact. They sell Visa/Mastercard gift cards that can be purchased with cash. Sell those in terminals or the passenger could buy those prior to getting to the station at most grocery stores or major drug stores. But I have been on the Empire Builder and heard the cafe car attendant and the dining car steward say, NO gift cards accepted, the card must have your name imprinted on it. But when you buy the gift card it tells you the Visa/Mastercard gift card is accepted anywhere Visa/Mastercard is accepted with the exception of car rental or hotel deposits. They authorize those cards just as any other. A young lady was on the Builder that time and her mom had given her a $100.00 Visa gift card to use for food. Was she surprised to find out that Amtrak would not take her gift card. I gave her $100.00 in cash and took the card. I used it to buy groceries when I got home. There is no reason Amtrak cannot take Visa/Mastercard gift cards. Kind of like making a 70 year old man show ID to buy a beer in the cafe car. Does not make sense.

Keith Hunter
FOREST CITY, IA

Why are car rentals and hotel deposits excluded from the use of Visa/MasterCard gift cards?

Sounds like someone's brother-in-law did some fast talking or made a large contribution!

stone23 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are car rentals and hotel deposits excluded
> from the use of Visa/MasterCard gift cards?
>
> Sounds like someone's brother-in-law did some fast
> talking or made a large contribution!


with car rentals, at least, many leasing firms require the person have at least $3,000 in available credit to cover damages, delayed charges, etc. Some firms will "block" your credit card for the $3,000 etc until you return the car in good condition.

The issue of gift cards on Amtrak could be easily addressed with the hand held card reader mentioned up thread. That tells you how much value is left on a card.

When I see passengers board #5 at Reno at 8:36am, and they enter the diner at 8:45am and are told the diner is closed and are turned away, it's no wonder why Amtrak is loosing money on on-board food services.

IHC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I see passengers board #5 at Reno at 8:36am,
> and they enter the diner at 8:45am and are told
> the diner is closed and are turned away, it's no
> wonder why Amtrak is loosing money on on-board
> food services.

I recently overheard a conductor who was ticked off about this very thing on #5 at Reno. He told his AC to go tell the LSA that he was NOT to be closed at 8:45A for breakfast. The LSA ignored the admonition and reiterated over the PA that the diner was closed as of 8:45A. I understand that an on time arrival into EMY translates to an earlier, abbreviated lunch period...But a normal breakfast and abbreviated lunch should not be mutually exclusive. There has to be a better way.

IHC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I see passengers board #5 at Reno at 8:36am,
> and they enter the diner at 8:45am and are told
> the diner is closed and are turned away, it's no
> wonder why Amtrak is loosing money on on-board
> food services.


You took the words right out of my mouth.

I suspect if the dining car crew was awarded a bonus pool of 10% of sales in the diner, you'd see extended hours, upselling of menu items, etc. As it is, if you close early your pay doesn't go down, and you have more time to finish the paperwork, count the packets of sugar, etc for inventory purposes.

The reason for the dining car is to provide meals to customers.

(A quick look in the old Official Guides suggests that many railroads posted the opening and closing times of the diners right there in the schedule. That takes the guesswork out of crews closing an hour or two early.)