Passenger Trains > Some Thanksgiving Rush Observations from Philadelphia

Hanging out at the northern throat of Philly's 30th Street Station now (at the parking garage).

Just observed Regional 94 (Newport News-Boston) depart with 13 (!) cars.....all looked revenue. It was running about an hour late, and had a somewhat extended stop in Philly. AEM7-904 was doing the honors on the point.

Prior to that, Regional 173 (Boston-Washington) arrived with 9 cars behind an AEM-7. In between the two, a Keystone departed for Harrisburg (behind AEM7-924, I believe), and since I'm hanging out on a "balcony" that is kinda low, I'm guessing I was seen by the engineer as I got a friendly two-shorties from the horn.

I haven't seen any AEM7 double-headers lately....even with the 13-car #94. At one point, the NEC was the land of such double-headers and HHP8's......the latter have become kinda rare lately.

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/12 14:09 by chs7-321.

Wow, thirteen cars. When I lived in richmond I think 94 was normally 6 or 7?

Does Amtrak have platforms on the NEC and in VA long enough to accommodate 13 cars trains at every stop?

Last observation - Regional 148 (to Springfield, MA, I believe) just departed with 9 cars and AEM7-916.

Onwards home for some dinner and an evening out! :)

Posted from Android

Monday mornings are often a good opportunity to see double headed AEM-7 units pulling regional trains toward NY from Philly. Not unusual to see two sometimes three sets in a morning

inRVA Wrote:
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Until 1994 when the FL trains were "Downsized", the METEOR and STAR regularly operated with 18 cars during Christmas and the summer peak. In the PRR days 13 cars was fairly routine, and actually a short train on weekends and holiday overflow periods. The only stations on the NEC where it was typical for double stops to take place (mainly on northbounds) were Trenton and Wilmington. Back in the day the passengers were staged at boarding locations by the station usher so that they would be positioned near the door of their designated car when the train stopped. In Newark, where I spent lots of time in the '60's, most trains could board 50-100 passengers in 2-3 minutes if there was no baggage or mail work.
I can't really speak for the stations on the RF&P, except for Alexandria, where it was common for a northbound with more than about 15 cars to make two stops. I've seen 18-21 car CHAMPIONS going south board patrons and load baggage in a single stop, 3-7 minutes.

Andy

Wow, thirteen cars. When I lived in richmond I
> think 94 was normally 6 or 7?
>
> Does Amtrak have platforms on the NEC and in VA
> long enough to accommodate 13 cars trains at every
> stop?

Newark used to be able to handle an 18 car train, although several platforms have been fenced to limit the access for passengers (and evil doers). The new platform in Trenton holds 8 cars westbound, I believe. That has caused problems in the recent past.

In the late 1990s and early 2000s, the January Chamber of Commerce "Walk to Washington" chartered train would often be 12-14 cars. Several bar cars and coaches for the lobbyists, government and union officials, vendors, legislators, etc. The practice was to double platform the train at Trenton so the rear cars could be accessed. Different lobby firms, vendors, and unions host different cars, so you want to know where you're boarding.

After Chris Christie came into office in late 2009 he banned his senior and department officials from traveling on the Chamber of Commerce chartered train for its January 2010 run. He had a problem with the Chamber of Commerce which sponsors the train. With fewer government officials on board, fewer lobbyists bought tickets for the January 2010 train, so the train was cut back to 8 cars.

Veteran travelers knew the train always double platformed, leaving enough time for another smoke on the platform, etc. This was different. This time the train whistled off toward Philly, where it was held for these late arriving guests. Some came by limo, others came in a second, regular Amtrak train.

The issues with the Chamber were worked out, and everybody had a pleasant trip in 2011, and everybody got on the train this time.

Guests fly back or come back by limo, or maybe by regular Amtrak. The trip is one way.


(Edited to make the story more concise.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/12 19:56 by Lackawanna484.

inRVA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, thirteen cars. When I lived in richmond I
> think 94 was normally 6 or 7?
>
> Does Amtrak have platforms on the NEC and in VA
> long enough to accommodate 13 cars trains at every
> stop?

Most NEC platforms are at least 12 car lengths long plus a bit, so if you don't open the first and last door, you can carefully platform 14 cars. Some platforms are much longer. 30th St. and the center platforms at NY Penn are 18 cars long.

The record has to be Savannah, GA, which for God only knows what reason, is something around 30 cars long. It literally looks like a landing strip!

twropr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> inRVA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Until 1994 when the FL trains were "Downsized",
> the METEOR and STAR regularly operated with 18
> cars during Christmas and the summer peak. In the

This only happened from 1979 to 1994. Before 1979, with the Champion running, the Meteor and Champion were only 14 cars. The Star was 18 as it went to both coasts.

> PRR days 13 cars was fairly routine, and actually
> a short train on weekends and holiday overflow
> periods. The only stations on the NEC where it
> was typical for double stops to take place (mainly
> on northbounds) were Trenton and Wilmington.

New York Penn, Newark, 30th St., Suburban Station, Paoli, Harrisburg, Wilmington, Baltimore, and Washington Union Station all had platforms that were 16-18 cars long. Rahway, New Brunswick, Princeton Jct., Trenton, North Philadelphia, and Lancaster had 10-12 car platforms. Amtrak and the FRA standardized on 12 car platforms for new stations - Metropark, BWI, New Carrollton are that length.

Platforms for long distance trains are supposed to be 1200 ft. long by Amtrak design standards - 14 car lengths. Especially with higher capacity Superliner trains (44 person sleepers vs. 22 in old cars and 72 person coaches vs. 44-52 in old cars) and higher capacity Amfleet II coaches (59 seats vs. 44-52 in old cars) on all long distance routes, its hard to imagine why they would need to be much longer today.

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> inRVA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow, thirteen cars. When I lived in richmond I
> > think 94 was normally 6 or 7?
> >
> > Does Amtrak have platforms on the NEC and in VA
> > long enough to accommodate 13 cars trains at
> every
> > stop?
>
> Most NEC platforms are at least 12 car lengths
> long plus a bit, so if you don't open the first
> and last door, you can carefully platform 14 cars.
> Some platforms are much longer. 30th St. and the
> center platforms at NY Penn are 18 cars long.
>
> The record has to be Savannah, GA, which for God
> only knows what reason, is something around 30
> cars long. It literally looks like a landing
> strip!

One thing to consider is there is/was a loading plan for long distance trains. When I was a train attendant in 1994 going northbound the Washington to New York passengers would be placed in the first two coaches next to the lounge and the rear two coaches would be for short haul passengers. As the train progressed north out of the Florida the third coach would eventually fill with Washington to New York passengers. With the loading plan it was easy to work a stop with a then 16 car Silver Meteor or Star. There were also two sections of coaches the Tampa and Miami sections from the train being combined. So the Silver Star for instance passengers would transfer at Jacksonville for northern points from the rear coaches (Tampa section) or front coaches (Miami section). So for instance if the Tampa section loaded passengers at Orlando for Hamlet then at Jacksonville they would be assisted to the front coaches. At Hamlet (before the remodeled station was relocated) the passengers would be at the front part of the train so when the train spotted the platform the "working" parts of it were all on the platform. This practice was true at more than several online points. There were exceptions to all of this and double stops were made such as if there were sleeper passengers in the rear sleepers etc.

As far as platform lengths there were several online communities that could handle 16-18 car Florida trains.

I rode in on #42 from Pittsburgh yesterday and it had 7 cars, sold out. I'm guessing they'll need another car for Black Friday?

Train 94 had well over 800 passengers on it north of Philadelphia according to the manifest.



chs7-321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
.
>
> Just observed Regional 94 (Newport News-Boston)
> depart with 13 (!) cars.....all looked revenue.
> It was running about an hour late, and had a
> somewhat extended stop in Philly. AEM7-904 was
> doing the honors on the point.
>

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After Chris Christie came into office in 2009 he
> banned his officials from traveling on the train.

Why would Governor Christine ban officials from traveling on the train? Does this ban apply only to those in the Governor's office or all higher-level executive staff? What transportation mode is acceptable if train travel is prohibited?

RuleG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > After Chris Christie came into office in 2009
> he
> > banned his officials from traveling on the
> train.
>
> Why would Governor Christine ban officials from
> traveling on the train? Does this ban apply only
> to those in the Governor's office or all
> higher-level executive staff? What transportation
> mode is acceptable if train travel is prohibited?


only on NJT trains that the state employees(non railroaders) had free ride perks for

Only 2 tracks at New York Penn Station can accommodate an 18-car train. As someone mentioned above, those are the center-of-the-station Tracks 11 and 12. Radiating from the center, the platform lengths become shorter. I don't know the exact number, but the platform for Tracks 9-10 and 13-14 will accommodate about 15 cars. And, actually, it's only Tracks 10 and 13 that will accommodate 15 cars; the other side of the platform, Tracks 9 and 14, hold 1 less car. And it goes on like that the farther out from center that you get. Track 8 holds about 12 cars; across the shared platform, Track 7 holds about 10 cars.

The whole thing is dependent on where the signals are placed. And, on some tracks (8 and 14 come to mind), there are signals about 2 or 3 carlengths in from the west end of the platform, so trains can be held there, or can be pulled all the way west on the platform.

Oldtimers have told me that, in PRR/PC days, the westbound Broadway, Train 29, always platformed on Track 14. It would come over from Sunnyside Yard and be stopped at the "inside" signal about 3 carlengths from the west end of the platform. The GG-1 that pulled the train from Sunnyside Yard would cut-off, and cross over to the west end of Track 15 to get out of the way. A road motor with a mail car, with late-release mail from the Post Office upstairs, would be in the pocket on the west end of Track 14, and would reverse against and couple to the train after it arrived from Sunnyside. The oldtimers say that, doing it this way, mail could be cut-off upstairs at the Post Office at 5:00 p.m., get downstairs to the RPO, and be coupled to the head-end of the Broadway to go west to Chicago, departing at 6:00 p.m.

Penn Station is one of the most amazing railroad facilities I've ever seen. It was designed to do all sorts of switching on long-distance trains, and most of the infrastructure remains. There are very few long-distance trains these days, and no trains are switched at Penn Station, but the trains still arrive and depart on 2- and 3-minute headways. An amazing place. A horrible place from a passenger-comfort perspective, but an amazing place from an operating standpoint and from the the standpoint of the number of passengers handled each weekday.

Out_Of_Service Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RuleG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > After Chris Christie came into office in 2009
> > he
> > > banned his officials from traveling on the
> > train.
> >
> > Why would Governor Christine ban officials from
> > traveling on the train? Does this ban apply
> only
> > to those in the Governor's office or all
> > higher-level executive staff? What
> transportation
> > mode is acceptable if train travel is
> prohibited?
>
>
> only on NJT trains that the state employees(non
> railroaders) had free ride perks for

That's correct, although the governor is seeking to end that "perk"

The situation I mentioned referred only to a single trip of the Chamber of Commerce chartered Amtrak train in 2010. Christie and the Chamber's execs had a difference of opinion over an issue, and Christie felt he needed to get their attention.

Withholding state executives / buyers of services from a trip usually filled with state executives, state and private industry union leaders, lobbyists, vendors, etc was an effective way to do that. Everybody was back on the train in 2011, deals were done, people were buddy buddy, etc.

One thing about NJ is you sometimes need to whack people with a 2 by 4 to get their attention, or get them to focus on a serious issue. It's much easier to get up and scream, get your base excited, etc than it is to focus on solving a problem in the most effective way. Christie is pretty good with the lumber, but he's even better in the quiet work of hammering out deals with the senate and assembly leaders, both of whom are of the other party.

In retrospect, the cancelled tunnel deal is a good example of swinging the 2 by 4, and the other side not sitting down to get a realistic Plan B in motion. Once Lautenburg and the unions moved to impeach Christie, any chance of a new tunnel vanished in the trench warfare.

inRVA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, thirteen cars. When I lived in richmond I
> think 94 was normally 6 or 7?
>
> Does Amtrak have platforms on the NEC and in VA
> long enough to accommodate 13 cars trains at every
> stop?

On Thanksgiving weekends they put on as many cars as they can. They carry many many more passengers than at any other time in the year.

RuleG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > After Chris Christie came into office in 2009
> he
> > banned his officials from traveling on the
> train.
>
> Why would Governor Christine ban officials from
> traveling on the train? Does this ban apply only
> to those in the Governor's office or all
> higher-level executive staff? What transportation
> mode is acceptable if train travel is prohibited?

Bit of confusion here. Gov. Christine is not the same as Gov. Christie. In fact, they are very different. Although many people think that NJ is monolithic, it is actually a VERY diverse collection of people.