Passenger Trains > NJ Transit: Not moving trains seemed like a good idea

Several NJ legislators grilled NJ Transit executive director James Weinstein about the agency's decision to leave equipment in low lying yards in advance of a well forecast storm.

>>Weinstein reiterated multiple times in his testimony that the agency’s decision to leave more than 300 pieces of rail equipment in those areas was “sound” at the time because it was based on what NJ Transit knew from its reports and history: the two yards had never flooded n NJ Transit’s roughly 30-year existence.

“It was the worst storm in my memory, in our generation,” he said.

He said it wasn’t until NJ Transit shut down its system that the “dynamics of the storm changed” and the surge occurred.<<

FWIW, I'm not buying it. The monster storm surge, river flood forecast was discussed for days before the storm. NJT began its shut down on Sunday night, well after the scary forecasts dominated the TV reports. I've been told upriver towns like North Arlington moved emergency equipment away from riverfront locations, as did Newark.

NJT people and equipment were placed in harm's way at a time when every media outlet in the metro area was talking about "12 foot storm surges into the river" which was about a quarter mile away. Is the outfit so rigid that people can't ask "is it a good idea to have this equipment sitting 6 feet above sea level when a 12 foot surge is being forecast?" And many of them remained at their posts, only to see their own vehicles flooded.


http://www.northjersey.com/news/NJ_Transit_chief_train_storage_decision_sound.html

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FWIW, I'm not buying it. The monster storm surge,
> river flood forecast was discussed for days before
> the storm. NJT began its shut down on Sunday
> night, well after the scary forecasts dominated
> the TV reports. I've been told upriver towns like
> North Arlington moved emergency equipment away
> from riverfront locations, as did Newark.

The more they open their mouths, the deeper they dig the hole...

Ray

I'm not from the area and have no stake in this, but from what I have heard, it is clear to me that whoever was involved in the decision to leave equipment in harm's way should be FIRED. Period.

My mother and father in law live on the beach on Staten Island and they knew to get out, even though they have lived there for 46 years and their house has never flooded above the foundation in thier lifetime. It was clear by the forecast that this storm was going to be unlike any that has hit the area in a long, long time.

It would have been difficult to move that much equipment, I suppose, but it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure that anything within 10-15 feet of sea level was going to get wet.

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not from the area and have no stake in this,
> but from what I have heard, it is clear to me that
> whoever was involved in the decision to leave
> equipment in harm's way should be FIRED. Period.

Should be FIRED, without ANY severance package, Golden
Parachute or any Bonuses for making such STUPID decisions!!!!!

And if that isn't enough, send the Repair Bill to the decision
makers!!!!!!!

Mike

Somehow every other major transportation provider in the region found the warnings sufficiently credible to take appropriate actions to project their people and equipment, yet only NJT didn't even though they were directly in the path of the expected (and actual) most significant damage.

One is unlikely to get a more accurate forecast with more lead time for such a historic and significant storm. Unless there's more to the story than provided by NJT so far, there needs to be a house cleaning at the top of NJT.

Put them in Jail....

Weinstein's excuses bring to mind squirming Hitler-appeaser Neville Chamberlain.
*Never had a storm problem this bad. Who knew?
*Maps...shmaps, studies...shmuddies.
*Insurance'll cover the damage.
*We promise not to raise fares.
Face it Jimmy--you REEEEEEEEEAALLLYY blew it.

You're TOAST, pal!

Looks like Jersey Central Power & Light, like Long Island Power, also got caught with lowered pants.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/12 23:01 by Abqfoamer.

We're a pretty sophisticated and rational bunch here.
Go on rr.net or Subchat, and the foamers will insult and cuss you off the board for criticizing NJT.

It is a proven fact that just an 8' storm surge would have flooded the Meadowlands.
Weinstein's latest excuse, and the politicians are dumb enough to be buying it, about the 630 trees falling was a bigger risk.
I wonder how many of those trees are growing in the train yards in Morrisville, Raritan, Summit (highest point on M&E, as the town name name imfers), which they dutifully cleared out ? (sarcastic)

I think any FEMA bailout for NJT should be predicated on the dismantling and restructuring of the entire outfit into an NY-MTA style business model.

I hope this doesn't come across as sympathy for the devil. Heads do indeed need to roll on this issue. But there's a really compelling issue of "How could these people be so stupid?"

Let me opffer an explanation. I spent several days on environmental cleanup duty on Long Island a week or so after Sandy. Mostly I was cleaning up home fuel oil tanks that had floated during the storm, then settled back to earth and tipped over.

The level of ignorance about storm surge in these neighborhoods was absolutely astonishing. This was true even among educated, high-income folks in the Nassau County beachfront neighborhoods. A lot of these people were well educated high-earners in the financial sector, who count (themselves) as the smartest folks out there. They lived 2, 3, maybe 10 blocks from the ocean, close enough to see the tide come in and out. And I can't even count how many people heard about the predicted storm surge and had no idea what it meant.

They knew it might rain a lot, and that the wind could be damaging. But they had no clue that the ocean itself could rise up and flood them even if the rainfall was relatively modest.

As a geologist, I find that level of ignorance shocking. But as a bureaucrat, somebody who has to interact with members of the public routinely, I shouldn't be shocked at all. That level of ignorance is really pretty common. "Common Sense" really ain't all that common.

Under those conditions, NJT officials may have thought that even if they moved equipment inland, it would be damaged by flood water from streams. RRs really do get washed out by hurricanes after all. And if they were flirting with the kid in the next seat back in 9th grade earth science class, they may not have had any idea that there are two different ways of getting flooded in a hurricane.

OK, so much for the sympathy part. These guys are paid very well to protect the public's investment in RR infrastructure. In short, their job is to not be morons.

And they were.

Let's make sure that WE aren't that stupid the next time ourselves.

There was abundant NOAA maps available for ocean front storm surges, and that of potential inland river breaches.
There was no contest as to which risk was greater.

As noted in a Reuters article a few weeks ago by a MNRR consultant, Generals are always fighting the last war. In this case "past experience" is what they went by, and they were stupid enough to say it.

LIRR, MNRR, and NYCTA got it right. These are subsidiary railroads of a legislated agency.
NJT is corporation whose Chairman is DOT Commissioner, and with operating divisions, so essentially a subsidiary of a highway-oriented cabinet department. NJT is not a railroad, does not act like a railroad, and are run by political hacks who do not know how to run a railroad.

http://webmaps.njmeadowlands.gov/municipal/downloads/flooding/pdf/Kearny%20-%20NJMC%20Flood%20Maps%20Nov%202012.pdf

http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=phi&amp;gage=bdkn4&amp;view=1,1,1,1,1,1



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/12 15:12 by joemvcnj.