Passenger Trains > Pullman Palace Car Co. plans for Las Vegas

After many months of silence, the Pullman Palace Car Co., (formerly "Z-Train" and not to be
confused with Iowa Pacific's Pullman operation) which had been planning to start up a high-end
passenger rail service between Los Angeles Union Station and Las Vegas, has surfaced again.

In the March issue of TRAINS, columnist Don Phillips writes about the venture, which is to be
in conjunction with a planned startup of scheduled refrigerator car service to Las Vegas.

The refrigerator car service is to begin first, coordinated with the opening of a terminal for
handling it: Railport Las Vegas, which is to have the capacity to handle sixty refrigerator cars
daily, to capture a large part of the food and beverage needs of the city, now on trucks. The
passenger service is to begin later, if...and here is the kicker...other planned operators cannot
reach a financial deal on their services. Thus far two private proposals are the only "active" ones.

Phillips says that the Pullman Palace Car Co. would have all-new equipment built by Sumitomo. Trains would
begin at sixteen cars and could grow from there. Some cars would be reserved by casinos for their best
customers; they would enjoy luxury services and gourmet food and drink, prepared and served by the casinos'
own staff. Locomotives would be brand-new Tier 3-compliant passenger engines leased from General Electric.
A new station located near the former Union Pacific Boulder Branch would be close to the Strip...the downtown
station used previously is considered too far away from the action.

Phillips says that the organizers have financing lined up for the equipment and are negotiating directly with
the railroads. The company would finance eighteen miles of double track on the Union Pacific line near Kelso,
and other line improvements.

The article says that not much has been heard about this because the organizers have "shunned publicity,"
instead dealing directly with politicians, civic leaders and the railroads. Phillips says that many state
and local leaders, including Sen. Harry Reid, are supporters.

Phillips is still skeptical but stunned that serious and well-financed "organizations and financiers now seem
to be aboard."

And there is absolutely no mention in the entire column of a passenger rail operator whose six-letter name
begins with "A."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/13 22:30 by GenePoon.

Wow. What if this actually worked?

Almost three years ago, the "Z-train" was battling the "X-train" (as pushed here on TO by "BidHitter"). For the past year or more, all we have heard about has been the X-train and now the Z-train has surfaced again. A bit of Googling brings us a number of stories with this one being most able to sort out the players as of May 2010:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/may/07/low-speed-train-proposals-clash/

And this one in early June 2010 discussing the court case(s):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amtrak/message/16659

Of course, one or both operations were supposed to be in operation by now, so maybe it's nothing more than more hype, though the X-train backers are supposedly renovating the former downtown RR station plus have a contract with UP. Of course for X-train these may be nothing more than rumors to gin up their penny stock with investors.

Using our TO search, the latest on the X-train:
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,2962956,2962956#msg-2962956

And on the Z-train:
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,2816274,2816392#msg-2816392



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/13 18:22 by Cumbresfan.

ok so the first of the two companies is going to do the Freight thing which I'm sure will use UP power to pull the train loads or they will have the reefers put on Trains already running through there...then...when they go to start Passenger Service...they are going to have their own cars, locomotives, crews, mechanical facilities, etc, etc?

...then...

the 2nd of the two companies is JUST going to do the Passenger Service thing and use Amtrak (the 6 letter company that starts with "A") to provide the T&E Crews, Mechanical Crews, etc, etc.

then over here in left field we have the company trying to do the "high speed" rail project from Victorville to Las Vegas and who knows what they will use to make the thing run and what not...

so how many companies are trying to get from LA to Vegas and how many of them are saying they will be running by the end of 2013?

I'm so confused now...time to go watch Honey Boo Boo or something and feel better about myself!

BabyHuey2926 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok so the first of the two companies is going to
> do the Freight thing which I'm sure will use UP
> power to pull the train loads or they will have
> the reefers put on Trains already running through
> there...then...when they go to start Passenger
> Service...they are going to have their own cars,
> locomotives, crews, mechanical facilities, etc,
> etc?
>
> ...then...
>
> the 2nd of the two companies is JUST going to do
> the Passenger Service thing and use Amtrak (the 6
> letter company that starts with "A") to provide
> the T&E Crews, Mechanical Crews, etc, etc.
>
> then over here in left field we have the company
> trying to do the "high speed" rail project from
> Victorville to Las Vegas and who knows what they
> will use to make the thing run and what not...
>
> so how many companies are trying to get from LA to
> Vegas and how many of them are saying they will be
> running by the end of 2013?
>
> I'm so confused now...time to go watch Honey Boo
> Boo or something and feel better about myself!

LOL! Hey, its Vegas and they hype everything there and probably take bets there on anything, even train service.

Reefer service to Vegas? From LA?? Considered profitable???

coach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reefer service to Vegas? From LA?? Considered
> profitable???

================================================================

Note that nowhere does it say all the reefers will come from Los Angeles. Actually it doesn't say WHERE the reefers
would be coming from.

The proposed PASSENGER train is to be from Los Angeles.

While were at it. What about the "Y Train"?

fulldynamics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While were at it. What about the "Y Train"?

The "Village People" couldn't pull together enough backers.

RailNet802, owevaaaah

Why is it so hard to believe that there is a market for service between two
very large cities (in terms of population, tourism and business)?

The fact that private enterprise and not the Government is looking into
initiating such service bids well in that the need actually exists vrs
simply something desired or done for political reasons.

And hey, they bagged a Senator - can't build anything without a corrupt
partner in the Government. Seems they have everything in order.

Question though - what's the connection between reefer service and the
passenger train? We're not talking mixed trains... or a private freight
line are we?

/Mitch

Eight words:

"I will believe it when I see it."

And that applies to ALL the proposals, schemes and pipe dreams.

While we're at it, let's talk about the railroad to Alaska and the Bering Strait bridge to Siberia.

Having attempted luxury service for 'whales' (Vegas lingo for best customers) I was made gently aware of the economics here. All the big hotels have luxury corporate jets and it's much more lucrative for them to fly their valued customers in (under one hour from Los Angeles) than it is to put them on a luxury train that takes 6+ hours. Translation: That's 5 hours they could be dropping money in my casino... I seriously doubt that the big hotels will get behind the proposal. But, who knows?

Mgoldman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is it so hard to believe that there is a
> market for service between two
> very large cities (in terms of population, tourism
> and business)?
>
> The fact that private enterprise and not the
> Government is looking into
> initiating such service bids well in that the need
> actually exists vrs
> simply something desired or done for political
> reasons.
>
> And hey, they bagged a Senator - can't build
> anything without a corrupt
> partner in the Government. Seems they have
> everything in order.
>
> Question though - what's the connection between
> reefer service and the
> passenger train? We're not talking mixed
> trains... or a private freight
> line are we?
>
> /Mitch


Not all private entities are successful either. You assume that just because a private investors are behind such a venture means that the public will not be on the hook if the entity fails. Nothing could be further from the truth when you consiter the costs to society when private capital is wasted on failed ventures. Ultimatly, everyone picks up the tab.
There are numerous examples in history when private firms frisked Government and stockholders, with and without the aid of so-called "corrupt" politicans. Your assumption that this is somehow a sinister plot to deprive taxpayers of their hard earned cash is based on false assumptions. And, simply because a Senator wins re-election doesn't mean he is corrupt, espically when that politican was running against someone who judged inadequate for the job by the voters.

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not all private entities are successful either.
No argument there.

> You assume that just because a private investors
> are behind such a venture means that the public
> will not be on the hook if the entity fails.
Made no such assumption.

> Nothing could be further from the truth when you
> consiter the costs to society when private capital
> is wasted on failed ventures. Ultimatly, everyone
> picks up the tab.
So - I open up a Dunkin Donuts and fail you'll help
pick up the tab?

> There are numerous examples in history when
> private firms frisked Government and stockholders,
> with and without the aid of so-called "corrupt"
> politicans.
Never said there were not such examples.

> Your assumption that this is somehow a
> sinister plot to deprive taxpayers of their hard
> earned cash is based on false assumptions.
Not my assumption. But I'd be willing to bet there
are several motives other then the public well
being.


> And,
> simply because a Senator wins re-election doesn't
> mean he is corrupt, espically when that politican
> was running against someone who judged inadequate
> for the job by the voters.

Sen. Reid initially backed a rival project but he
jumped ship shortly after project consultant Sig
Rogich became co-chair of Republicans for Reid, a
Nevada group with ties to the gambling industry
that helped Reid win re-election in 2010.

Marnell, another member of Republicans for Reid, is
president of one of several companies under the
HSR corporate banner. He and his son, M Resort,
Spa and Casino President Anthony Marnell III, are
also investors. Federal records show the elder
Marnell has donated at least $15,000 to political
committees connected to Reid since 2010, including
a $5,000 donation in May to the senator’s
Searchlight Leadership Fund.

Unlike many, I'd love to see this happen despite
expectations of never using it personally.

/Mitch

I would think the reefers would be coming to Vega$ from Colorado or Washington, where they will become a growth industry in 2013.

Mgoldman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ATSF3751 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Not all private entities are successful either.
> No argument there.
>
> > You assume that just because a private
> investors
> > are behind such a venture means that the public
> > will not be on the hook if the entity fails.
> Made no such assumption.
>
> > Nothing could be further from the truth when
> you
> > consiter the costs to society when private
> capital
> > is wasted on failed ventures. Ultimatly,
> everyone
> > picks up the tab.
> So - I open up a Dunkin Donuts and fail you'll
> help
> pick up the tab?


No, you open a large factory promising jobs in exchange for local and state tax breaks and infrastructure to support it's development. Then you decide a few years later to move overseas. Such events have occured, leaving local and state governments and the taxpayers, to pick up the tab. Business don't exist in a vacumn.
>
> > There are numerous examples in history when
> > private firms frisked Government and
> stockholders,
> > with and without the aid of so-called "corrupt"
> > politicans.
> Never said there were not such examples.

Didn't say you did. Read my notes again.
>
> > Your assumption that this is somehow a
> > sinister plot to deprive taxpayers of their
> hard
> > earned cash is based on false assumptions.
> Not my assumption. But I'd be willing to bet
> there
> are several motives other then the public well
> being.
>
>
> > And,
> > simply because a Senator wins re-election
> doesn't
> > mean he is corrupt, espically when that
> politican
> > was running against someone who judged
> inadequate
> > for the job by the voters.
>
> Sen. Reid initially backed a rival project but he
>
> jumped ship shortly after project consultant Sig
> Rogich became co-chair of Republicans for Reid, a
>
> Nevada group with ties to the gambling industry
> that helped Reid win re-election in 2010.
>
> Marnell, another member of Republicans for Reid,
> is
> president of one of several companies under the
> HSR corporate banner. He and his son, M Resort,
> Spa and Casino President Anthony Marnell III, are
>
> also investors. Federal records show the elder
> Marnell has donated at least $15,000 to political
>
> committees connected to Reid since 2010, including
>
> a $5,000 donation in May to the senator’s
> Searchlight Leadership Fund.

Wow. $20000. Pocket change for politicans. Certainly not enough to carry the election. Bottom line is Reid won re-election becasue his opponet was found lacking in both substance and ability. 'Nuff said about that. Besides, all politicans accept money. Half of a politicans time...Republican, Democrat, Libertarian...ect, is used running for re-election and looking for donations, and all accept donations from both corporate, private, as well as PAC's.
>
> Unlike many, I'd love to see this happen despite
> expectations of never using it personally.
>
Mitch, I think this venture is ill advised, as is any rail service such as this that would try to compete in this corridor with the frequent and cheap air service. That said, I would rather see a comprehensive service through Las Vegas to connect in SLC with the California Zeyphr. A revival of the Desert Wind. Probably never happen.

> /Mitch