Passenger Trains > Sleeper Upgrade Policy When Using AGR Awards

We used two zone AGR roomette awards for our trip on our recent trip. Since we live in Pittsburgh and the zone break point is Toledo, OH I always purchase our room to Toledo and use points from that point on. We used to upgrade to a bedroom when possible when using a roomette award. Used to be you would pay the upgrade fee and move to a bedroom if one was available.

Now the policy has changed. You cannot upgrade to a bedroom when using an AGR award in a roomette. I asked on train 3 just to make sure. The conductor said he was sorry and had a bedroom available all the way to LA. That bedroom stayed empty all the way to LA. Again on the Starlight from LA to Portland we would have upgraded to a bedroom. At least two stayed empty the entire trip.

And lastly on the Builder bedrooms were available and we would have gladly paid to have one. I calculated based on the prior upgrade fees that we would have paid almost $700.00 in upgrade fees if we had been allowed to upgrade to rooms that sat empty. A Coast Starlight conductor said that while he does sell upgrades to roomettes to coach passengers rarely does he upgrade a coach passenger to a bedroom. He was very apologetic that we could not upgrade.

Personally I think that a company that has the money problems Amtrak has needs to better think out policies like this one. A first time passenger can upgrade by paying a fee but a AGR Select Plus member cannot upgrade by paying a fee. Makes no sense. Bottom line is this. I have $700.00 in my bank account that could have now been in Amtrak's account.

If I were in charge of Amtrak I would go out of my way to accommodate my frequent travelers, not attempt to alienate them. To reach AGR Select Plus status you must spend $10,000 per year on rail travel. This is my 5th year of being AGR Select Plus member and I do not like this new policy.

Keith Hunter
FOREST CITY, IA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/13 06:08 by houstonguy2010.

how much is the upgrade if you don't use AGR points

side note: i would venture to say that most of those people traveling by train don't spend $10,000 on train travel

If Amtrak doesn't have the capability to provide an immediate upgrade, it would make sense to have a VIP desk etc where the conductor could go/call to make the arrangements. If there was a down line customer who was buying that room at a ticket office you'd want some way to block off the inventory as it was being sold. I'm guessing Amtrak uses some kind of a modified batch entry system, so inventory isn't constantly refreshed.

(I understand that this probably doesn't happen often enough to install capability for each customer / conductor, but it seems like an opportunity to grab some cash for rooms that would otherwise go unsold.)

I have seen in my travels people upgrade from a roomette to a bedroom many times. I have paid as little as $50.00 on the Eagle to as much as $267.00 on the Builder to upgrade before. The conductor knows if a room is available because he/she simply calls in and is told how much the upgrade fee is. Then the bedroom is taken out of inventory and the roomette is put back into inventory.

You can still upgrade if you are a "paying" customer. This only applies to the times when you are using an AGR roomette award. It is simply not fair and Amtrak is losing revenue for this misguided policy.

Keith Hunter
FOREST CITY, IA

Out_Of_Service Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> houstonguy2010 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----

>
> how much is the upgrade if you don't use AGR
> points
>
> side note: i would venture to say that most of
> those people traveling by train don't spend
> $10,000 on train travel

The way the upgrade used to work was the treated your AGR roomette at a "D" bucket fare and you were charged the "D" bucket fare for the bedroom. You simply paid the difference. A simple and effective way to sell a bedroom that is unsold and put one roomette back into inventory to be sold.

Keith Hunter
FOREST CITY, IA

houstonguy2010 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have seen in my travels people upgrade from a
> roomette to a bedroom many times. I have paid as
> little as $50.00 on the Eagle to as much as
> $267.00 on the Builder to upgrade before. The
> conductor knows if a room is available because
> he/she simply calls in and is told how much the
> upgrade fee is. Then the bedroom is taken out of
> inventory and the roomette is put back into
> inventory.
>
> You can still upgrade if you are a "paying"
> customer. This only applies to the times when you
> are using an AGR roomette award. It is simply not
> fair and Amtrak is losing revenue for this
> misguided policy.


OK. I misunderstood your question. They're looking for the cash rather than allowing people to work off earned points.

I've had that problem many times with the airlines. They won't let you use your frequent flyer miles to get a first class ticket but they're delighted to let you pay $5,000 for that seat. You can upgrade 48 hours before the flight if the seat is still available, though. Screws up trip planning however.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> If Amtrak doesn't have the capability to provide
> an immediate upgrade, it would make sense to have
> a VIP desk etc where the conductor could go/call
> to make the arrangements.

They have always had the ability to to an onboard upgrade. But now they cannot when you are using an AGR award. But if you are not using an AGR reward they can still do the upgrade as always. Point is Amtrak is losing money as a result of this policy and the Conductor I talked with agrees. Last year Amtrak would have taken our money for the upgrade and this year they will not. Yet the bedrooms sat empty for the duration of the trip. A customer looking at unused space wanting to buy it and not allowed to do so. Wanting to spend money and told that you can't.

Keith Hunter
FOREST CITY, IA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/13 07:05 by houstonguy2010.

There aren't many domestic flights (Delta) where I'm not automatically upgraded to Business Class. Amtrak should do the same for their frequent/high spend customers if space is available.

AGR does not deal with points and cash transactions of any kind. I tried to use points for the auto portion of an AutoTrain trip, but pay for the transportation/sleeper portion in cash. No deal. It is all AGR or nothing. Apparently that now extends to enroute upgrades as well. As you point out, the end result is lower total income for AMTRAK, but it keeps accounting for AGR simpler for them (and isn't that the aim of any organization, government related or private: to keep things as simple as possible?). Trying to figure out the revenue accounting for a bedroom that mixes cash upgrade and AGR points would be cumbersome in the minds of some, and require thinking outside the box. In the end, it is deemed better to take in less total than to mix the two revenue streams. (Of course, a simple computer program could accommodate this in a micro-second, but then . . . )

RevRandy Wrote:
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> ...the end result is lower total income
> for AMTRAK, but it keeps accounting for AGR
> simpler for them (and isn't that the aim of any
> organization, government related or private: to
> keep things as simple as possible?).

=======================================

Uh, NO. Only the lazy ones, as RevRandy suggests.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/13 07:37 by GenePoon.

RevRandy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AGR does not deal with points and cash
> transactions of any kind. I tried to use points
> for the auto portion of an AutoTrain trip, but pay
> for the transportation/sleeper portion in cash. No
> deal. It is all AGR or nothing. Apparently that
> now extends to enroute upgrades as well. As you
> point out, the end result is lower total income
> for AMTRAK, but it keeps accounting for AGR
> simpler for them (and isn't that the aim of any
> organization, government related or private: to
> keep things as simple as possible?). Trying to
> figure out the revenue accounting for a bedroom
> that mixes cash upgrade and AGR points would be
> cumbersome in the minds of some, and require
> thinking outside the box. In the end, it is
> deemed better to take in less total than to mix
> the two revenue streams. (Of course, a simple
> computer program could accommodate this in a
> micro-second, but then . . . )

The value of the roomette and bedroom when upgraded always was before simply the value of a "D" bucket fare. When I worked in the hotel industry at Westin Hotels if a guest was staying using Starwood Preferred Guest points in a standard room and wanted to upgrade to a suite we simply would calculate the difference of the cost of the standard room and the suite and collect the difference for the suite via cash or credit card. Very simple. The revenue was listed as "upgrade revenue". More revenue for the company and a happy guest. It was a really easy accounting task. If Amtrak cannot account for upgrade revenue then they need a new accountant. And if at the hotel I had refused to take money for a room upgrade that would have went empty I would most likely have been fired.

Amtrak needs to think of its beds in sleepers like the hotels do. If that room is not occupied for a night that is revenue that is lost forever. The old "heads in beds" mantra should apply to Amtrak as well. For once that roomette, bedroom etc goes empty that is revenue that is simply gone forever.

Keith Hunter
FOREST CITY, IA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/13 08:48 by houstonguy2010.

AMTRAK won't get serious or professional towards customers until it changes its silly name. It really is buffonish.

coach Wrote:
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> AMTRAK won't get serious or professional towards
> customers until it changes its silly name. It
> really is buffonish.

I wonder if that new VP of Marketing has thought of this - forty years of struggling with spotty service and the answer has been staring at us the whole time! Or maybe he's just too much of a "buffon" (sic)...

Dave

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> There aren't many domestic flights (Delta) where
> I'm not automatically upgraded to Business Class.
> Amtrak should do the same for their frequent/high
> spend customers if space is available.


The airlines upgrade their frequent flyers so that those flyers will stick with that airline and not jump ship to a competitor for their future, PAID travel. Amtrak has no competitors, so there is no reason for management to provide free upgrades to their frequent passengers. Who are they going to jump ship to? Greyhound? Megabus?

chakk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> andersonb109 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There aren't many domestic flights (Delta)
> where
> > I'm not automatically upgraded to Business
> Class.
> > Amtrak should do the same for their
> frequent/high
> > spend customers if space is available.
>
>
> The airlines upgrade their frequent flyers so that
> those flyers will stick with that airline and not
> jump ship to a competitor for their future, PAID
> travel. Amtrak has no competitors, so there is
> no reason for management to provide free upgrades
> to their frequent passengers. Who are they going
> to jump ship to? Greyhound? Megabus?

I completely disagree. If Amtrak made the effort to do this it would likely contribute to increased bookings. Amtrak has many competitors for travel and SHOULD be making efforts to reward its most frequent customers. But, this is Amtrak after all.

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> chakk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > andersonb109 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > There aren't many domestic flights (Delta)
> > where
> > > I'm not automatically upgraded to Business
> > Class.
> > > Amtrak should do the same for their
> > frequent/high
> > > spend customers if space is available.
> >
> >
> > The airlines upgrade their frequent flyers so
> that
> > those flyers will stick with that airline and
> not
> > jump ship to a competitor for their future,
> PAID
> > travel. Amtrak has no competitors, so there
> is
> > no reason for management to provide free
> upgrades
> > to their frequent passengers. Who are they
> going
> > to jump ship to? Greyhound? Megabus?
>
> I completely disagree. If Amtrak made the effort
> to do this it would likely contribute to increased
> bookings. Amtrak has many competitors for travel
> and SHOULD be making efforts to reward its most
> frequent customers. But, this is Amtrak after
> all.

Continental / United limits free upgrades and first class seats by class level (gold, silver, platinum, etc) so you don't crowd out paying customers. It used to be that at my class level, you could only get your seat 24 hours before departure. And you could get bumped back into coach if a paying customer showed up and wanted that seat. People at higher levels could book free upgrades 48 hours ahead, etc.

AGR is in a tough position. You want to attract and reward and keep frequent full fare travelers. But you don't want to give away space that could be sold and bring $$$ in house.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> P Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > chakk Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > andersonb109 Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------

>
> AGR is in a tough position. You want to attract
> and reward and keep frequent full fare travelers.
> But you don't want to give away space that could
> be sold and bring $$$ in house.

But I am not talking about giving away space in advance here. I am talking about an empty bedroom that sat empty on three different trains. As a conductor told me that he upgrades passengers to roomettes from coach frequently but rarely does he upgrade a coach passenger to a bedroom. Revenue that could have been generated that was not. Half the sleepers empty during a non peak season night on any train should get the conductor on the PA announcing sleeper availability. He should also be able to give out popular city pair pricing on the sleepers and also let people know that meals are included. This would increase revenue. And yes it would require a little increased work on the part of the conductor.

Keith Hunter
FOREST CITY, IA