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Passenger Trains > Security Perspective from north of the border


Date: 04/18/13 09:29
Security Perspective from north of the border
Author: poffcapt

I saw this article on the Internet this morning, and found it made some good points. However, what we will probably see for a few weeks, are "gangs of 4 or 5" like the ones pictured, walking around railroad stations, telling you not to photograph trains.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/community

I hope that Amtrak also uses plain clothes operatives with psych training, able to pick up on the nuances of suspicious actions by bad guys. I would imagine that the bottom line is that there is no money for such things, which lays the problem at the feet of the Congress, where it will be studied and "committeed" for years before someone says we don't need that. Nothing has happened.



Date: 04/18/13 09:45
Re: Security Perspective from north of the border
Author: ghCBNS

poffcapt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I saw this article on the Internet this morning,
> and found it made some good points. However, what
> we will probably see for a few weeks, are "gangs
> of 4 or 5" like the ones pictured, walking around
> railroad stations, telling you not to photograph
> trains.

Here's the actual link to the article:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/1123834-goodman-us-rail-passengers-remain-defenceless



Date: 04/18/13 10:08
Re: Security Perspective from north of the border
Author: GenePoon

poffcapt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I hope that Amtrak also uses plain clothes
> operatives with psych training, able to pick up on
> the nuances of suspicious actions by bad guys.

==========================================================

The following is a TRUE story involving a plain-clothes operative.
His qualifications as to psych training are unknown:

One fine day in 2012 I went out railfanning with a friend visiting from out of town.
From San Francisco we went first to Emeryville, CA on an earlier Thruway Bus
than that for San Joaquin Train 712, which we planned to ride. We did that so
we could photograph Capitol Corridor trains and UP freight trains before 712's
departure. I began to be aware that we were being watched, about a half hour
in when I was working a signal into a photo's composition. Since I was totally
within Amtrak's photo policy, I didn't let it bother me, but I kept the individual
under observation nevertheless. Got a couple of photos of him with the long
telephoto lens, while I was at it...also of an American Airlines jet on departure
from San Francisco Airport (it was a VERY loooooong lens).

712 arrived and we boarded, riding it to Modesto where we detrained and had about
an hour to wait for San Joaquin 701 to Sacramento. We photographed 712's departure.

The same individual appeared on the platform while we waited for 701; he stood at
the opposite end of the platform from where we waited. There was no BNSF freight
traffic and thus nothing to photograph until Train 701; we photographed 701 as
it arrived, and then boarded. One photo shows the other end of the platform.
Yup. Same guy.

We arrived in Sacramento on time and left the station area for lunch, returning
a few hours later to board a Capitol Corridor train for Martinez, where we set up
at some good locations on the platform and photographed several Amtrak and UP trains
before boarding a county bus to the BART station, for a ride back to San Francisco.
The same person appears on several of the photos we took at Martinez, too.

I'm thinking, AMTRAK POLICE (verified later by an inquiry to someone I know at
Amtrak's offices in Oakland). I wonder what his supervisor thought of his report
on his activities of the day, which read something like, "Surveilled subjects all day.
Subjects didn't do anything. Another day, another train ride..."

...And another wasted day securing America's Railroad®.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/13 10:09 by GenePoon.



Date: 04/18/13 10:42
Re: Security Perspective from north of the border
Author: joemvcnj

So the west coast RR police are getting as dumb as the east coast, and where Amtrak police are stretched a lot thinner than they are in the NEC. Notice now Boston police are begging for pictures for investigations. Good thing they were not "banned" from the finish line of the Marathon for security purposes.



Date: 04/18/13 11:14
Re: Security Perspective from north of the border
Author: amtrakwolverine

I wonder how this securty theater will affect NTD. there will be people all over taking pictures. Will we be seeing mass arrests. "breaking news 100s arrested taking pictures of trains at Chicago union station. biggest terror bust in US history" etc etc.



Date: 04/18/13 12:05
Re: Security Perspective from north of the border
Author: SN711

Gene,

May well be a coincidence. From what I know Amtrak officers will ride random trains out of Oakland / Emeryville, in a combination of stops and train changes that will get them back to their starting point by end of shift. One day 3 randomly showed up at Martinez on 3 different trains within a few minutes

Gary



GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> poffcapt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I hope that Amtrak also uses plain clothes
> > operatives with psych training, able to pick up
> on
> > the nuances of suspicious actions by bad guys.
>
> ==================================================
> ========
>
> The following is a TRUE story involving a
> plain-clothes operative.
> His qualifications as to psych training are
> unknown:
>
> One fine day in 2012 I went out railfanning with a
> friend visiting from out of town.
> From San Francisco we went first to Emeryville, CA
> on an earlier Thruway Bus
> than that for San Joaquin Train 712, which we
> planned to ride. We did that so
> we could photograph Capitol Corridor trains and UP
> freight trains before 712's
> departure. I began to be aware that we were being
> watched, about a half hour
> in when I was working a signal into a photo's
> composition. Since I was totally
> within Amtrak's photo policy, I didn't let it
> bother me, but I kept the individual
> under observation nevertheless. Got a couple of
> photos of him with the long
> telephoto lens, while I was at it...also of an
> American Airlines jet on departure
> from San Francisco Airport (it was a VERY
> loooooong lens).
>
> 712 arrived and we boarded, riding it to Modesto
> where we detrained and had about
> an hour to wait for San Joaquin 701 to Sacramento.
> We photographed 712's departure.
>
> The same individual appeared on the platform while
> we waited for 701; he stood at
> the opposite end of the platform from where we
> waited. There was no BNSF freight
> traffic and thus nothing to photograph until Train
> 701; we photographed 701 as
> it arrived, and then boarded. One photo shows the
> other end of the platform.
> Yup. Same guy.
>
> We arrived in Sacramento on time and left the
> station area for lunch, returning
> a few hours later to board a Capitol Corridor
> train for Martinez, where we set up
> at some good locations on the platform and
> photographed several Amtrak and UP trains
> before boarding a county bus to the BART station,
> for a ride back to San Francisco.
> The same person appears on several of the photos
> we took at Martinez, too.
>
> I'm thinking, AMTRAK POLICE (verified later by an
> inquiry to someone I know at
> Amtrak's offices in Oakland). I wonder what his
> supervisor thought of his report
> on his activities of the day, which read something
> like, "Surveilled subjects all day.
> Subjects didn't do anything. Another day, another
> train ride..."
>
> ...And another wasted day securing America's
> Railroad®.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 04/18/13 12:14
Re: Security Perspective from north of the border
Author: korotaj

The joy of being free in an evolving police state.



Date: 04/18/13 12:56
Re: Security Perspective from north of the border
Author: Lackawanna484

korotaj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The joy of being free in an evolving police state.


A lot of it is theater. Make people feel safer and collect some overtime doing it. Maybe scare off a bad guy.



Date: 04/18/13 15:35
Re: Security Perspective from north of the border
Author: crs1026

After reading the article, my reaction is - score one for the terrorists.

The writer of the article is thinking exactly the way terrorists want us to think.....ie to be afraid.

Unless train bombings actually start to happen, I'm content with low security and not being hassled by anyone.

- Paul



Date: 04/19/13 13:23
Re: Security Perspective from north of the border
Author: tumulus

Security scanning lines are terrorist events waiting to happen. They produce a density of population tailor-made for a terrorist to do the most damage. Rather than taking their device onto a plane, train, or other conveyance they only need to reach the middle of the security line and set off their device. From a pure "terror" perspective that sort of event would damage the passenger travel infrastructure of a county far more than any event taking down the actual mode of transport. Nobody would be willing to stand in line next to a potential bomber. Security lines only create another opportunity for mayhem.

- tum



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