Passenger Trains > Chicago Red Line shutdown: good so far

The south end of the Chicago red line has been shut down for a six month half billion dollar renovation. As noted on TrainOrders and in the press, the line is beset with slow orders and is in desperate need of repairs.

I was in Chicago this morning, and the first weekday of the shutdown was extensively covered with reporters riding buses and detoured trains. Traffic reporters breathless with news of highway congestion, etc. The Trib reports that reporters and CTA staff out numbered riders in some places. Still, the day went flawlessly. The stations on the closed section are serving as a point for alternate bus routes. In a number of cases, riders reported a more comfortable and faster ride. Whenter that will still be true after the renovations isn't yet clear.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-cta-red-line-shutdown-20130520,0,3974805.story

Hope they do a better job on the reconstruction than they did on the original.

Just got off my Halsted (near end of Green Line) - Howard ride from work. Organizationally, things are working from what I saw... everything is marked, shuttled buses, etc.

That said, the "improvements" to the Green Line in preparation are questionable. I rode it every once in awhile prior to the shutdown, and today, slow spots seemed just as plentiful, if not more so. I did notice new pandrol clips and tie plates in several spots, including the Red-Green connecting ramp - yet despite that investment, the speed was still slow in many of these locations. On the connecting ramp both going and coming it was only 10-15mph. My Roosevelt to Halsted Southbound trip took nearly thirty minutes...even though there are only 7 stops.

billio Wrote:
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> Hope they do a better job on the reconstruction
> than they did on the original.

The "original" was constructed by the City of Chicago, 44 years ago, and not by the CTA. In fact the City constructed both subways, all three expressway median rail lines, the Midway line. The CTA operates the lines. Here is a post about the original construction I posted on the Internet:

"There has been much discussion on the Internet about the original Dan Ryan transit line construction. In the opinion of this author there has been too little recognition that the original line was not constructed by the CTA, but was constructed by the City of Chicago. And the bridge that cracked at 18th St. and Federal St. over the CRI&P railroad was also constructed by the City of Chicago and not the CTA. And the status of applying concrete ties to transit lines 40 years ago was highly experimental and untried.

"The media of the day did call the ties used on the Ryan "concrete"; they were two pieces joined with a steel bar. I wouldn't call them concrete....to me, concrete ties are one piece. Today they are known as "bi-block ties" and are mostly seen in "direct fixation" track structures.....like in the subway or Fullerton and Belmont. Dallas Dart light rail even used direct fixation on the ground, I guess in flood prone areas or areas of poor ground stability. Hint, hint...if you want to see good track ride the Dart. SEPTA has used direct fixation on Philly's Market-Frankford EL. Anyway, bi-block ties aren't seen on ballasted track usually.

"Word in the '70s was that it was a mistake to put concrete ties on limestone ballast anyway, the harder concrete smashed the softer limestone into lime mud. You could see the areas where track "pumped" all up and down the line.

"Milton Pikarsky, city commissioner said the Ryan ties saved money, were European in idea, and showed Chicago was at the forefront. By 1972, the City was reimbursing the CTA for replacement of the ties with wood ties. But the CTA still has strived for experimentation....it's used recycled ties, it's used African wood in ties. It even had an experimental stretch of track on the northside main near Bryn Marw. Those ties didn't last either, LOL. But today it's politically deadly to make mistakes, so no experimentation any more. And be mindful that there are many reasons why concrete ties fail.....drainage, sub soil, ballast material, ballast thickness, composition of the concrete. I think they were all "present and accounted" for on the Ryan. If you want more, talk to Amtrak (355,000 ties failed plus 800,000 due for replacement), Metro North( 50,000 installed, 50,000 removed), New Jersey Transit( 27,000 installed, 100 percent removed). All this in the 1990s. Source: Railway Tie Association."

inRVA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just got off my Halsted (near end of Green Line) -
> Howard ride from work. Organizationally, things
> are working from what I saw... everything is
> marked, shuttled buses, etc.
>
> That said, the "improvements" to the Green Line in
> preparation are questionable. I rode it every once
> in awhile prior to the shutdown, and today, slow
> spots seemed just as plentiful, if not more so. I
> did notice new pandrol clips and tie plates in
> several spots, including the Red-Green connecting
> ramp - yet despite that investment, the speed was
> still slow in many of these locations. On the
> connecting ramp both going and coming it was only
> 10-15mph. My Roosevelt to Halsted Southbound trip
> took nearly thirty minutes...even though there are
> only 7 stops.

The 'L' line you rode from Roosevelt to Hasted has been improved. You didn't specify the day of the week, the time of day, or the instances of "slow operation." All "slow zones" have been removed from that stretch. You mentioned the incline out of the subway. In the days of the PCC 6000s before cab signals, going uphill it was all you could get, about 25 MPH. Today, the incline is approaching a manned tower (17th St.) mixing three lines. You are not going to get a signal faster than 15 MPH. Here the speed is governed by things other than the track, which is 100 percent new on the incline. But mentioning seven station stops is not really a true indication of train speed to be expected. From Roosevelt to Halsted you go through five 90 degree right hand curves. Everyone has to slow down for those. There are two bad signal circuits that will cause the train to stop enroute. Your other source of slowness is congestion. You may have been following your leader who might have been delayed for whatever reasons. I know that's hard to determine unless you were in the head car. Scheduled time from Roosevelt to Ashland, one station further is 23-24 minutes. So you lost eight minutes, which might not be that bad, agreed. I think the railroad is in excellent shape to handle the Red line reroute.

Responding to billio, DHarrison Writes:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The "original" was constructed by the City of
> Chicago, 44 years ago, and not by the CTA. In
> fact the City constructed both subways, all three
> expressway median rail lines, the Midway line.
> The CTA operates the lines. Here is a post about
> the original construction I posted on the
> Internet:
>
> "There has been much discussion on the Internet
> about the original Dan Ryan transit line
> construction. In the opinion of this author there
> has been too little recognition that the original
> line was not constructed by the CTA, but was
> constructed by the City of Chicago. And the
> bridge that cracked at 18th St. and Federal St.
> over the CRI&P railroad was also constructed by
> the City of Chicago and not the CTA. And the
> status of applying concrete ties to transit lines
> 40 years ago was highly experimental and untried.
>
> "The media of the day did call the ties used on
> the Ryan "concrete"; they were two pieces joined
> with a steel bar. I wouldn't call them
> concrete....to me, concrete ties are one piece.
> Today they are known as "bi-block ties" and are
> mostly seen in "direct fixation" track
> structures.....like in the subway or Fullerton and
> Belmont. Dallas Dart light rail even used direct
> fixation on the ground, I guess in flood prone
> areas or areas of poor ground stability. Hint,
> hint...if you want to see good track ride the
> Dart. SEPTA has used direct fixation on Philly's
> Market-Frankford EL. Anyway, bi-block ties aren't
> seen on ballasted track usually.
>
> "Word in the '70s was that it was a mistake to put
> concrete ties on limestone ballast anyway, the
> harder concrete smashed the softer limestone into
> lime mud. You could see the areas where track
> "pumped" all up and down the line.
>
> "Milton Pikarsky, city commissioner said the Ryan
> ties saved money, were European in idea, and
> showed Chicago was at the forefront. By 1972, the
> City was reimbursing the CTA for replacement of
> the ties with wood ties. But the CTA still has
> strived for experimentation....it's used recycled
> ties, it's used African wood in ties. It even had
> an experimental stretch of track on the northside
> main near Bryn Mawr. Those ties didn't last
> either, LOL. But today it's politically deadly to
> make mistakes, so no experimentation any more.
> And be mindful that there are many reasons why
> concrete ties fail.....drainage, sub soil, ballast
> material, ballast thickness, composition of the
> concrete. I think they were all "present and
> accounted" for on the Ryan. If you want more,
> talk to Amtrak (355,000 ties failed plus 800,000
> due for replacement), Metro North( 50,000
> installed, 50,000 removed), New Jersey Transit(
> 27,000 installed, 100 percent removed). All this
> in the 1990s. Source: Railway Tie Association."

Hmmm. Miltie, as he was known in some Chicago tranzit circles, rode this horse as far as he was able. His reward for constructing the Dan Ryan Line was to be appointed (by Mayor Daley the 1st) chairman of CTA and then, first head (Chairman) of the RTA. Miltie's claim to fame was perfectly congruent with the late Mayor -- both were practitioners of the art of cost cutting by chincy work, and in sweeping untidy details under the rug. Instead of opting to spec construction materials that were proven to hold up under the heaviest pounding, Miltie opted for unproven, cheapo stuff that would last beyond his term as chairman, but no longer. Classic Chicago.

The result: a total rebuild of the line 40 years later.

Bottom line: Ya gets what yez pays fer. Oh yes, Miltie died while on a road trip to Washington, DC in 1989. Sayonara...

DHarrison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> inRVA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just got off my Halsted (near end of Green Line)
> -
> > Howard ride from work. Organizationally, things
> > are working from what I saw... everything is
> > marked, shuttled buses, etc.
> >
> > That said, the "improvements" to the Green Line
> in
> > preparation are questionable. I rode it every
> once
> > in awhile prior to the shutdown, and today,
> slow
> > spots seemed just as plentiful, if not more so.
> I
> > did notice new pandrol clips and tie plates in
> > several spots, including the Red-Green
> connecting
> > ramp - yet despite that investment, the speed
> was
> > still slow in many of these locations. On the
> > connecting ramp both going and coming it was
> only
> > 10-15mph. My Roosevelt to Halsted Southbound
> trip
> > took nearly thirty minutes...even though there
> are
> > only 7 stops.
>
> The 'L' line you rode from Roosevelt to Hasted has
> been improved. You didn't specify the day of the
> week, the time of day, or the instances of "slow
> operation." All "slow zones" have been removed
> from that stretch. You mentioned the incline out
> of the subway. In the days of the PCC 6000s before
> cab signals, going uphill it was all you could
> get, about 25 MPH. Today, the incline is
> approaching a manned tower (17th St.) mixing three
> lines. You are not going to get a signal faster
> than 15 MPH. Here the speed is governed by things
> other than the track, which is 100 percent new on
> the incline. But mentioning seven station stops
> is not really a true indication of train speed to
> be expected. From Roosevelt to Halsted you go
> through five 90 degree right hand curves.
> Everyone has to slow down for those. There are two
> bad signal circuits that will cause the train to
> stop enroute. Your other source of slowness is
> congestion. You may have been following your
> leader who might have been delayed for whatever
> reasons. I know that's hard to determine unless
> you were in the head car. Scheduled time from
> Roosevelt to Ashland, one station further is 23-24
> minutes. So you lost eight minutes, which might
> not be that bad, agreed. I think the railroad is
> in excellent shape to handle the Red line reroute.

There was at least one slowdown for trackwork. The trips I took were going at 1:30 and returning at 7:30. In general, though, on top of the normal constraints of curves there seemed to be an extra amount of slow running - which as you say could also be congestion related.

It wasn't that many years ago when they had segments of the Ryan line running on shooflies on the expressway shoulders. Something about getting to electrical conduits under the tracks. (Another brilliant idea to put them there?) Shouldn't these two projects have been carried out together? If you are renewing the entire track, ballast, and maybe even the subgrade, seems like that would be a good time for conduit work and if you are shutting down the line entirely you don't have to bother with shooflies.

Is this project going to impact adjacent road traffic?

filmteknik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It wasn't that many years ago when they had
> segments of the Ryan line running on shooflies on
> the expressway shoulders. Something about getting
> to electrical conduits under the tracks. (Another
> brilliant idea to put them there?) Shouldn't
> these two projects have been carried out together?
> If you are renewing the entire track, ballast,
> and maybe even the subgrade, seems like that would
> be a good time for conduit work and if you are
> shutting down the line entirely you don't have to
> bother with shooflies.
>
> Is this project going to impact adjacent road

I would offer your description is in error.

""The crossover and signal improvements on the Dan Ryan resulted in some interesting temporary operations to allow the new interlockings to be installed: the creation of temporary runaround "shoo-fly" tracks.......
"The shoo-flies consisted of bypass tracks in each direction located outside the current CTA right-of-way on the left Dan Ryan Expressway shoulder (adjacent to the CTA right-of-way) in each direction. The creation of these bypass tracks, each of which stretched between 1,000 and 2,000 feet, allowed the CTA to maintain uninterrupted bi-directional traffic on the Red Line while taking the permanent tracks out of service for replacement. Work performed in the bypass areas included the replacement of tracks and ties, installation of new specialwork such as crossovers, and the sinking of new traction power cables and substation connections. The runarounds were only being established where certain work was required, not along the entire branch."

Looks like the conduit work was limited.....so too the track work involved total replacement of crossovers at the eight interlockings.
> traffic?

DHarrison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I would offer your description is in error.
>

I can confirm Mr. Harrison's assessment as my firm was hired by the contractor to prepare the maintenance of traffic plans for the shoulder and lane closure on the Dan Ryan. The contractor sold the CTA on the shoofly concept to expedite the replacement of the crossovers. Train delays were minimized and each crossover was able to be constructed as one unit instead of separate pieces.

My understanding is that the Illinois DOT would not permit similar lane closures for the current project due to the current traffic levels on the Dan Ryan. And they probably did not want a temporary track constructed on the recently reconstructed pavement.

My point was less to do with the nature of work being done that created the need for the shooflies than why it wasn't just all lumped in with the work currently underway.

filmteknik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My point was less to do with the nature of work
> being done that created the need for the shooflies
> than why it wasn't just all lumped in with the
> work currently underway.


Because when the crossovers were rebuilt, the CTA did not have the money for the complete reconstruction that they do now.