Passenger Trains > CA: More funding for rail and roads

The California gasoline tax will increase 3.5 cents per gallon this week to about 72 cents. According to the state, the increase will provide additional funding for California's highway and rail network.

The increase in fuel tax rate is partly the result of fewer gallons of gas being purchased. The growth in electric car use seems to be one factor in the decline.

Many activists see the process of replacing various sales taxes on the fuel with a state excise tax as a sleight of hand to take funding from towns (who get part of the sales tax) and replace it with an excise tax that goes to the state. California has a process which requires tax increases to be approved by the voters, and it appears the process has been bypassed.

<http://www.mercurynews.com/traffic/ci_23563585/state-gas-tax-rises-3-5-cents-monday?nstrack=sid:7273409|met:0000300|cat:0|order:11&%2F%3Fsource=dailyme>

The cost of gas in California borders on criminal compared with most areas in the other lower 48 states. No wonder electric car use is higher than elsewhere.

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> The cost of gas in California borders on criminal
> compared with most areas in the other lower 48
> states. No wonder electric car use is higher than
> elsewhere.


We use "special" gas to help fight air pollution. Costs more to make and the oil companies make darn sure to pass along the added costs.

Gee I must have missed this latest increase! But if I buy enough groceries at Safeway, I get 10 or 20 cents off at the pump!

Tom Y

icancmp193 Wrote:
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> Gee I must have missed this latest increase! But
> if I buy enough groceries at Safeway, I get 10 or
> 20 cents off at the pump!


The local Chevron (Safeway's partner in the promotion) stations know that and jack up their prices.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/13 19:50 by GenePoon.

We are in So Cal this weekend and we bought gas for only 4 cents more a gallon than what I paid in Utah before we left. Usually we pay at least 20 cents more a gallon, so that was a surprise. But back to the topic, the gas tax changes are interesting. In Utah there is talk about raising our gas tax and the increased mileage per gallon of new cars or electric or natural gas were the reasons stated in the article I was reading. I do wonder what changes we'll see. There is a similar discussion about changing how UTA will charge fares on buses based on distance instead of a flat rate. It's all about the money.

Nathan

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> The cost of gas in California borders on criminal
> compared with most areas in the other lower 48
> states. No wonder electric car use is higher than
> elsewhere.

What is criminal about reducing fossil fuel consumption? Is powering cars only by gasoline in your bible or something? It's easier to deal with pollution at one large source than many small ones, what difference does it make what a vehicle is powered by?

3.5 cents a gallon is less than one percent of a $4.00 per gallon pump price.
Prices fluctuate by far larger amounts all the time and people seem to accept it.
Why do people think that funding roads is not subject to inflationary pressures like everything else?
I believe that by using up our capital investment in highways (e.g. not doing maintenance) we are using up the gifts the prior generations taxed themselves to give us.
If you think there is no tomorrow, this is exactly what you would do (run your assets into the ground).
This forum has plenty of example of how well that has played out in the railroad industry.
This is some of the rare good news out there.

My sources (son) tells me nationally gasoline is 50% cheaper than 1977. Based on inflation. Raise gas taxes. Fix infrastructure. Put tens of thousands to work. GENERAL FUND should not be spent on highways!!!

Gas taxes should be indexed to the cost of living - its not in Calif. and because cars are more efficient it raises LESS revenue than it once did. Remember that the next time you complain about rough roads...

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

Have been in Spain the past month where the cost of gas is close to $10 per gallon. Both the roads and rail systems are great though, and cars generally more efficient.

Dave

DavidP Wrote:
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> Have been in Spain the past month where the cost
> of gas is close to $10 per gallon. Both the roads
> and rail systems are great though, and cars
> generally more efficient.
>
> Dave

Speaking of Spain, they found that after you are highly successful subsidizing solar energy you have a decreasing base to pay for the electrical grid infrastructure which is still needed. This is the joke on the poor.
The rich and businesses can install subsidized solar but the others have to pay more.

I would google Spain and energy policies before I hold them out as an example.

Bob

MojaveBill Wrote:
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> Gas taxes should be indexed to the cost of living
> - its not in Calif. and because cars are more
> efficient it raises LESS revenue than it once did.
> Remember that the next time you complain about
> rough roads...


Several states are considering charging electric cars and natural gas cars, etc based on miles driven. And using that funding to help support roads and mass transit.

Plug in hybrids are a special case since one driver may run 90% of his miles on electric, while another might run 90% on fully taxed gasoline. Charging him / her for total miles could result in double taxation.

[A carbon tax would help address that, with different carbon taxes for electricity and gasoline, but there's no way this would be an "instead of" tax. They'd just add it to the 72 cents....

cutboy2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My sources (son) tells me nationally gasoline is
> 50% cheaper than 1977. Based on inflation. Raise
> gas taxes. Fix infrastructure. Put tens of
> thousands to work. GENERAL FUND should not be
> spent on highways!!!


While I agree with all of your points, you need to remember that just a couple years after 1977 the price of gasoline more than doubled, so gasoline today is about the same (adjusted for inflation) as it was in 1979/1980.

Compared to most any other country in the world, or at least countries you'd care to visit, gas in the USA, including California, is comparatively inexpensive. Here in Chile, it's about US$7/gal at the current exchange rate and in Europe higher still.

erielackawanna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cutboy2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My sources (son) tells me nationally gasoline
> is
> > 50% cheaper than 1977. Based on inflation.
> Raise
> > gas taxes. Fix infrastructure. Put tens of
> > thousands to work. GENERAL FUND should not be
> > spent on highways!!!
>
>
> While I agree with all of your points, you need to
> remember that just a couple years after 1977 the
> price of gasoline more than doubled, so gasoline
> today is about the same (adjusted for inflation)
> as it was in 1979/1980.

LOL, the great stat trick, stock brokers are great at that, just pick the right years for comparison.

Bob

robj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> erielackawanna Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > cutboy2 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > My sources (son) tells me nationally
> gasoline
> > is
> > > 50% cheaper than 1977. Based on inflation.
> > Raise
> > > gas taxes. Fix infrastructure. Put tens of
> > > thousands to work. GENERAL FUND should not
> be
> > > spent on highways!!!
> >
> >
> > While I agree with all of your points, you need
> to
> > remember that just a couple years after 1977
> the
> > price of gasoline more than doubled, so
> gasoline
> > today is about the same (adjusted for
> inflation)
> > as it was in 1979/1980.
>
> LOL, the great stat trick, stock brokers are great
> at that, just pick the right years for
> comparison.
>
> Bob

This chart, going back to 1918, says that the inflation adjusted price of gasoline is about the same now as it was in 1918, and in 1981, after the steep jump from the first oil spike.

http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/Gasoline_Inflation.asp


WONK note. Energy (gasoline, fuel oil, etc) and food are generally excluded from the "cost of living" index. So you need to go a little deeper into the Bureau of Labor Statistics to get the real numbers.

GettingShort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> andersonb109 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The cost of gas in California borders on
> criminal
> > compared with most areas in the other lower 48
> > states. No wonder electric car use is higher
> than
> > elsewhere.
>
> What is criminal about reducing fossil fuel
> consumption? Is powering cars only by gasoline in
> your bible or something? It's easier to deal with
> pollution at one large source than many small
> ones, what difference does it make what a vehicle
> is powered by?


Amen my friend!

Tor in Eugene

GettingShort Wrote:
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> ... It's easier to deal with
> pollution at one large source than many small
> ones, what difference does it make what a vehicle
> is powered by?

But you have a tradeoff with transmissions losses, so like usual, the truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

/* My sources (son) tells me nationally gasoline is 50% cheaper than 1977. Based on inflation. Raise gas taxes. Fix infrastructure. Put tens of thousands to work. GENERAL FUND should not be spent on highways!!! */

My note referred to this, but if we want to go back to 1918 or even 1930 or even 1950 we are in an apples and oranges comparison if we are talking about actual usage. How many people drove even 50 miles to work
or even drove more than a few miles to get groceries. 1960's in the middle class neighborhood I grew up in,
one car family was the norm, there was little sprawl and 12,000 miles a year on the car was probably high.

However, if we want to talk taxes, if transit and fuel efficient or electric cars are a success at some point the
free ride goes away. There is simply no way you can keep taxing a smaller and smaller base to subsidize
someone else.

Bob