Passenger Trains > 850(22) Service disruption

Anyone know what happened to 850 tonight? Left Chicago on time according to dixieland, and now it's showing service disruption..

Delayed west of Dyer, IN thanks to disabled freight trains. Awaiting relief freight crews to be enroute but they are being help-up thanks to severe winter weather and road conditions.

May have to do with the insane way Amtrak Chicago management insist on crewing the train now. The same crew that works 51/851 from Indianapolis to Chicago in the morning takes a 5 hour cut and works 50/850 back to Indianapolis. However, they only have enough time to get to around Rensselear before the crew dies. So an extra board crew must be called to recrew the train and they are sent by van or cab from Indianapolis to REN to recrew, and pray I-65 is running smoothly. This was never an issue when the Indy crews overnighted in Chicago since they would go out fully rested the next day.

In the past few months since Amtrak has instituted this new "recrew every 50/850" policy, the train has been delayed several times a week sometimes significantly waiting for crews to be fully rested in CHI (sometimes the board in Indianapolis is depleted and this is the only option) or waiting for recrews that were called late or cannot make it in a timely manner due to road conditions. 50/850 have dozens of delayed departures in the past few months due to this, often approaching 3-4 hours. Nice on 850 where there is no food or beverage service.

T&E have been begging Amtrak management to restore the crew overnight stay in Chicago. The current situation does not and is not working even in warmer temperatures of Fall. Amtrak is stepping over a buck to save a dime. At a time Amtrak should be showing Indiana DOT how we can run trains and providing them with good service, they drop the ball again.

Edited: saw the post above. Still one of the main reasons for major delays on the route are stated above. I have horror stories from crews and passengers but will refrain from posting to protect them. I feel especially bad for the T&E who have jobs on the line if IDOT pulls funding on this horribly operated train thru no fault of the crew.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/14 19:58 by cashfare.

Typical Northeast thinking, applied to a situation where it just doesn't work.

On the Corridor, hardly anybody overnights. With the frequent operation of trains,
just about everyone winds up returning home at the end of the day, and that saves
Amtrak money, because a crew member who overnights away from home is paid for that
time.

But in Indianapolis, the crew base serves only one train a day to/from Chicago, plus
a triweekly job to/from the East. That one Chicago train is not scheduled to make it
back home before Hours of Service expire; making matters worse, the crew base is often
inadequately staffed (when an extra board has ONE person on it, that's inadequate).

Should Indiana decide, with justification, that it is getting poor value for money
from Amtrak, it has the right to seek another operator when the current contract expires.
The State has already indicated its willingness to see if someone else can better operate
the Hoosier State, but Amtrak will still be responsible for the Cardinal, at least until
Boardman and Amtrak find a way through Congress to slough off the long distance services
onto the states, too.

GenePoon Wrote:
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> But in Indianapolis,...the crew base is often
> inadequately staffed (when an extra board has ONE
> person on it, that's inadequate).

What? That hasn't been the case in a long time. But Cashfare has it pretty much dead on.

If I were Indiana (or Michigan for that matter), I'd be taking a very hard look at Keolis, VRE, and Amtrak's food fight 4 years ago.
I think Michigan requires Michigan-based crews run their trains, so no same day turns even for part of the trip back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/14 06:26 by joemvcnj.

So did a train actually run, or was it backed up to Chicago and bustituted?

Agree with the previous comments on the absurd mismanagement by Amtrak's eastern establishment.

There are a cadre of consultants looking at this, of course, but by the time the reports come out, the year will be up, and the train will be no more.

Some more information about the poor, neglected Hoosier State:

On Wednesday morning 22JAN a Superintendent from Chicago was in Indianapolis for a meeting with the crews.

What he said:

No changes are expected in the rest of this fiscal year.

There are no plans for a schedule change, not even into the next fiscal year. No food service
or wifi. No plans, not even exploratory, for daily service of the short-distance mini-corridor type
(planning for such changes should already be in the works, if they were being considered).

Canadian National will not permit a reroute of the northern part of the route to the CN line used
by the City of New Orleans.

Crews are reported "fed up" at the news and now expect the Hoosier State to go away in the fall; nobody
expects Indiana to put up with this poor service any longer.

Possible saving grace: an outside contractor has already visited, and is considering bidding against
Amtrak on the service.

Note that it was the evening AFTER this meeting that the 850(22) disaster operated. It took THREE crews
to get the train to Indianapolis. Meanwhile, Amtrak is still claiming they are saving money by running
it this way. The Superintendent's comment? He suggested that the crews exercise seniority and bid in
somewhere else if they don't like the recrews.

I will not speculate on whether this Amtrak official rode Amtrak from Chicago to Indianapolis on Tuesday
evening (at least that train did operate close to schedule), overnighted in a hotel, had the meeting,
killed the rest of the day, overnighted again and took Amtrak back to Chicago this morning. I should
not have to; on the current schedule using the trains that way would have been a major waste of his time,
and of what he is paid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/14 09:13 by GenePoon.

GenePoon Wrote:
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> There are no plans for a schedule change...

That's not for lack of trying, so the rumor goes. You have to get freight railroad cooperation as well.

So what time did the train actually get to Indianapolis today, or is it still out there yet "en-route" someplace. Were there any passengers aboard, or were they evacuated.

Ordinarily the Amtrak news item might have been significant, except that all news media are swooning with their preoccupation of one student killing another student on the Purdue campus.

Media in Indiana has actually been paying attention to Amtrak this year, and so far nobody is impressed.

...and people wonder why Amtrak crews are demoralized.

Oh it gets better ... not a rumor but apparently reality, Ed Ellis is chatting up the state about bidding on the Hosers. He'll have no better luck getting over the road, and with what equipment, non-ADA or modern-FRA compliant junk from his parking lot in Colorado?

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> I think Michigan requires Michigan-based crews run
> their trains, so no same day turns even for part
> of the trip back.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they do.

< There are no plans for a schedule change, not even into the next fiscal year. No food service or wifi. No plans, not even exploratory, for daily service of the short-distance mini-corridor type (planning for such changes should already be in the works, if they were being considered).

As much as I'd like to blame Amtrak, isn't most of that Indiana's call ? As with Penn-DOT, the one who pays for the service decides if there is to be cafe cars and frequency.

Do any non-cafe cars have Wifi in the midwest ?

Questions on Cardinal/Hoosier crew-change delays.... I'm a journalist in Cincinnati, and also a railfan, former Amtrak employee, and frequent rider on 50/51. If there are any passengers or crew members out there who would like to talk with a reporter for a potential news story about the crew-change issue and the impact on delays, please contact me at either 513-763-5589, or jhirsh@local12.com Being in Cincinnati, I'd prefer talking with folks in my area, but I'm happy to speak/e-mail with those on the Indy-Chi end of the situation as well. Thanks.

So, since you brought it up, Iowa Pacific is interested in the outcome of the Hoosier State. We are NOT interested in replacing Amtrak train crews. I think the way Amtrak has set up the crew districts and trained the crews is top-notch, the engineers and conductors that I know do a great job. There is no savings there.

But if the state comes out with an RFP to replace the rolling stock, on-board service(!) and marketing, that would be of interest to us. Our cars at SNC are fully FRA-compliant (and they check regularly) and ADA accessible. And I think we could improve on board service on the Hoosier State, as well as provide a local focus to marketing.

Solving the on-time performance question is crucial, but that's an Amtrak-freight railroad issue, and it's up to the Amtrak freight relations staff to solve it.

I'm not sure why everyone has the mistaken impression that Iowa Pacific wants to put train crews out there to replace Amtrak train crews, but let me say it again, we have ZERO interest in replacing Amtrak train crews. We provide our crews on routes that Amtrak doesn't run, but if an Amtrak crew is running the train, they should continue doing so.

By the way, the point of the parking lot in Alamosa is to have something to rebuild and put in service when needed, with EXCELLENT freeze protection. You have be able to see beyond the Horizon....

PumpkinHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh it gets better ... not a rumor but apparently
> reality, Ed Ellis is chatting up the state about
> bidding on the Hosers. He'll have no better luck
> getting over the road, and with what equipment,
> non-ADA or modern-FRA compliant junk from his
> parking lot in Colorado?

eee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, since you brought it up, Iowa Pacific is
> interested in the outcome of the Hoosier State.
> We are NOT interested in replacing Amtrak train
> crews. I think the way Amtrak has set up the crew
> districts and trained the crews is top-notch, the
> engineers and conductors that I know do a great
> job. There is no savings there.
>
> But if the state comes out with an RFP to replace
> the rolling stock, on-board service(!) and
> marketing, that would be of interest to us. Our
> cars at SNC are fully FRA-compliant (and they
> check regularly) and ADA accessible. And I think
> we could improve on board service on the Hoosier
> State, as well as provide a local focus to
> marketing.
>
> Solving the on-time performance question is
> crucial, but that's an Amtrak-freight railroad
> issue, and it's up to the Amtrak freight relations
> staff to solve it.
>
> I'm not sure why everyone has the mistaken
> impression that Iowa Pacific wants to put train
> crews out there to replace Amtrak train crews, but
> let me say it again, we have ZERO interest in
> replacing Amtrak train crews. We provide our
> crews on routes that Amtrak doesn't run, but if an
> Amtrak crew is running the train, they should
> continue doing so.


If things are really going to be as good as you make them sound, I hope for the good of the passengers and crews alike that you get the bid on the train.