Passenger Trains > Capitol Corridor Eyes Roseville Expansion

It looks like the excellent Capitol Corridor service in Northern California is looking to expand their service from all but one Eastbound trains a day terminating in Sacramento to having up to 10 trains per day terminate in Roseville. To expand service like this, a third main track would need to be built between Sacramento's Amtrak station and Roseville. This would include a new bridge over the American river, and a parallel trestle to the existing trestle on the East side of the river, which was rebuilt a few years back after a fire destroyed the original wood trestle.

More info here: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/07/08/6542731/capitol-corridor-hope-10-passenger.html

I wonder if this has to do with reports last year that Caltrans was looking for area in the Sacramento region to build a rail yard for maintenance purposes for the Capitols and San Joaquins. Evidently, they've reached capacity for their current Oakland facilities and would like room for further service growth.

Info: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/08/04/5622293/caltrans-surveys-sacramento-sites.html

Top_bullfrog
Sacramento, CA

What does Uncle Pete think about this idea?

I wondered about that also. That particular route has a myriad of 40 to 50 freight trains a day, including the California Zephyr and one Capitol Corridor. I can imagine what UP thinks...! If the State/CC folks plans include sharing a lot of the costs of rail maintenance, building additional sidings, it might be possible. We shall see.

raillady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wondered about that also. That particular route
> has a myriad of 40 to 50 freight trains a day,
> including the California Zephyr and one Capitol
> Corridor. I can imagine what UP thinks...! If
> the State/CC folks plans include sharing a lot of
> the costs of rail maintenance, building additional
> sidings, it might be possible. We shall see.


UP is supportive, according to the article, which would be consistent with their position over the last 10 or more years on additional trains east from Sacramento.

The article states:

"Officials with Union Pacific, which would own the line, say the project would free up space for their freight train operations, which are expected to increase over time. UP would own the new tracks and pay to maintain them, but would not help pay to build them. Instead, it would grant Capitol Corridor the right to run 10 roundtrips a day on the line."

Funding is now available from cap and trade funds, which, in addition to funding California high-speed rail, have been appropriated by the Legislature for projects like this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/14 07:56 by reindeerflame.

Thanks for the head's up. There is a demand for more service for Placer County and foothill residents. Also for people familiar with the area, the City of Lincoln has exploded in growth over the last 35 years that I've lived here (Del Webb retirement communities are very big) and I've spoken to CapCorridor folks about heading up that way. Highway 65, that branches off Roseville was built not that long ago and already is jammed, with backlog onto east and westbound Interstate 80.

Now, the article also quotes some negative voices, namely passengers from Placer County east of Roseville, who would like at least a few additional frequencies to operate as far as Rocklin and Auburn. That does not appear to be part of the current proposal, although it has been discussed in the past.

Ya gotta start somewhere!

"What does Uncle Pete think about this idea?"

I think SP sold trackage rights to CalTrans back in 1992 or so. Not sure how many "trains" of trackage rights were included in the deal, but it's something that has been a legal contract since prior to the UP takeover. So if Uncle Pete doesn't like the deal, he should have thought about that when he decided how much to pay for the SP.

Ted in OR

>I think SP sold trackage rights to CalTrans back in 1992 or so. Not sure how many "trains" of trackage rights were included in the deal, but it's something that has been a legal contract since prior to the UP takeover. So if Uncle Pete doesn't like the deal, he should have thought about that when he decided how much to pay for the SP.

Don't know about the SP's selling of trackage rights, but when the UP redid the hump yards in Rsv, they drastically reduced off-main storage capacity and the overall efficiency of the yard for switching trains and moving them through Rsv. When too many trains show up in any given time period, the only recourse now is to store them on the main lines approaching Rsv from Elvas or fill up all the sidings from Rsv to Binney Jct (sometimes beyond). The UP also converted Elvas from a double track wye to a single track one and eliminated the center siding between Elvas Tower and Polk. For those of us who experienced the SP's method of operations in the 1970s, when there were many, many more trains per day than has been the case since the bottom fell out around 1984, all the the UPs "improvements" have done is lead to traffic jams. The UP would dearly like this 3rd track, as long as someone else pays for it. They will undoubtedly run freights on it. The taxpayers should beware.

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >I think SP sold trackage rights to CalTrans back
> in 1992 or so. Not sure how many "trains" of
> trackage rights were included in the deal, but
> it's something that has been a legal contract
> since prior to the UP takeover. So if Uncle Pete
> doesn't like the deal, he should have thought
> about that when he decided how much to pay for the
> SP.
>
> Don't know about the SP's selling of trackage
> rights, but when the UP redid the hump yards in
> Rsv, they drastically reduced off-main storage
> capacity and the overall efficiency of the yard
> for switching trains and moving them through Rsv.
> When too many trains show up in any given time
> period, the only recourse now is to store them on
> the main lines approaching Rsv from Elvas or fill
> up all the sidings from Rsv to Binney Jct
> (sometimes beyond). The UP also converted Elvas
> from a double track wye to a single track one and
> eliminated the center siding between Elvas Tower
> and Polk. For those of us who experienced the SP's
> method of operations in the 1970s, when there were
> many, many more trains per day than has been the
> case since the bottom fell out around 1984, all
> the the UPs "improvements" have done is lead to
> traffic jams. The UP would dearly like this 3rd
> track, as long as someone else pays for it. They
> will undoubtedly run freights on it. The taxpayers
> should beware.

The storage problem hasn't been a problem in years. I haven't seen trains backed up, tied down along Roseville Road in probably a decade. The normal backup these days is trains stopping at Swanston to head south through Elvas on the single tracked east leg. Also, I don't recall the center siding being in place south of Elvas even at the time of the UP takeover. How far south did it go? Looking at satellite pictures, the levee the tracks are on narrows down to two tracks wide even north of Hopfen, still miles north of Polk. The siding looks like it was short of a mile long, and with train lengths of today, it would be inadequate for holding anything but maybe a local.

Of course the third main would run freights on it, otherwise there would be a single track main for Amtrak without any sidings between Sacramento and Roseville. That would hamper any opposing movements of Amtrak trains. If built, it will be CTC'd in with the rest of the mains to add capacity to everything. UP just has to get off their butts and re-double track the East leg of Elvas to make that area more fluid. If the extra San Joaquins come to fruition, it wouldn't surprise me to see them double track from Polk to Elk Grove either.

Top_bullfrog
Sacramento, CA

The agreement with SP and Caltrans from 1991 allows only one daily train between Colfax and Sacramento, currently operating only from Auburn.

Other rights to use the ex-SP lines relate to the portion between Sacramento and San Jose, and have been expanded over time, but Roseville has been a big sticking point until now.

It's nice having some cash to spend.

raillady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wondered about that also. That particular route
> has a myriad of 40 to 50 freight trains a day,
> including the California Zephyr and one Capitol
> Corridor. I can imagine what UP thinks...! If
> the State/CC folks plans include sharing a lot of
> the costs of rail maintenance, building additional
> sidings, it might be possible. We shall see.

You are certainly right about the number of freight trains! I often play golf at the Haggin Oaks course when visiting Sacramento, which is adjacent to the UP tracks a few miles southwest of Roseville. Players must simply give up waiting for a "quiet time" to hit their shots, as there always seems to be at least one train within earshoot.

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The agreement with SP and Caltrans from 1991
> allows only one daily train between Colfax and
> Sacramento, currently operating only from Auburn.
>
> Other rights to use the ex-SP lines relate to the
> portion between Sacramento and San Jose, and have
> been expanded over time, but Roseville has been a
> big sticking point until now.
>
> It's nice having some cash to spend.

I consider cap and trade a farce (together with AGW) but in this case something good may come out of it (except for CA utility ratepayers).

>I don't recall the center siding being in place south of Elvas even at the time of the UP takeover.

The UP took it out when they "improved" the wye at Elvas.

>How far south did it go?

Almost to J St, as I recall.

>The siding looks like it was short of a mile long, and with train lengths of today, it would be inadequate for holding anything but maybe a local.

True, but you could stick a San Joaquin in there when necessary instead of holding it at places like Elk Grove and Need.

>Roseville has been a big sticking point until now.

Cross out "until now" because the UP's stipulations haven't materially changed, except perhaps for price.

For all you you who didn't have the benefit of seeing the SP's operations prior to about 1982, the UP /isn't/ busy. In the early 1950s, between about 5 AM and 10 PM there was hourly passenger service between Oakland and Sac. In between each passenger train (hourly in both directions), there was a freight train (in both directions). Most of these ran between Rsv and Oak. So when you add trains to/from the West Valley (via Davis), Fresno, and Tracy (traffic from SF and Salinas) into this mix between Elvas and Rsv .. .. ..

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >I don't recall the center siding being in place
> south of Elvas even at the time of the UP
> takeover.
>
> The UP took it out when they "improved" the wye at
> Elvas.
>
> >How far south did it go?
>
> Almost to J St, as I recall.
>
> >The siding looks like it was short of a mile
> long, and with train lengths of today, it would be
> inadequate for holding anything but maybe a local.
>
>
> True, but you could stick a San Joaquin in there
> when necessary instead of holding it at places
> like Elk Grove and Need.
>
> >Roseville has been a big sticking point until
> now.
>
> Cross out "until now" because the UP's
> stipulations haven't materially changed, except
> perhaps for price.
>
> For all you you who didn't have the benefit of
> seeing the SP's operations prior to about 1982,
> the UP /isn't/ busy. In the early 1950s, between
> about 5 AM and 10 PM there was hourly passenger
> service between Oakland and Sac. In between each
> passenger train (hourly in both directions), there
> was a freight train (in both directions). Most of
> these ran between Rsv and Oak. So when you add
> trains to/from the West Valley (via Davis),
> Fresno, and Tracy (traffic from SF and Salinas)
> into this mix between Elvas and Rsv .. .. ..

Thanks for the info!

Top_bullfrog
Sacramento, CA

Cumbresfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reindeerflame Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The agreement with SP and Caltrans from 1991
> > allows only one daily train between Colfax and
> > Sacramento, currently operating only from
> Auburn.
> >
> > Other rights to use the ex-SP lines relate to
> the
> > portion between Sacramento and San Jose, and
> have
> > been expanded over time, but Roseville has been
> a
> > big sticking point until now.
> >
> > It's nice having some cash to spend.
>
> I consider cap and trade a farce (together with
> AGW) but in this case something good may come out
> of it (except for CA utility ratepayers).


Cap and trade is being extended to transportation fuel producers on January 1, 2015, and will likely affect gas prices now as well as utilities, cement manufacturers, and the like.

Spending a lot of time running on these tracks over the last few years I can see zero need for the center siding,very little need for a double tracked east leg, but a LOT of need for another crossover or two between Swanston and Citrus Heights.

Somehow building a second main north of the engine facility in Roseville and putting an entrance to the engine house inbound off of the current main two would work wonders for moving trains. Way too many light power moves requiring both mains to get to and from the yard.

I simply do not understand the UP's mindset. Roseville and the Elvas wye get downsized, and now things don't flow. Just how do UP supervisors come up with these decisions????

And agreed: the UP isn't busy in Roseville, not like the SP was. UP may THINK they're busy, but they're not. Congestion on Donner? Please, read some history books.