Passenger Trains > Japan Latest Country to Drop Most Sleeper Trains

From Nippon.com:

Perhaps the biggest strike against Blue Trains is the time they take to reach their destinations. As the country continues to age, we must take into account the desire of the middle-aged and elderly to take it easy, which inclines them to prefer shorter travel times.

All overnight sleeper services between Tokyo and Kyūshū, including the Asakaze, were stopped in 2009, and the Akebono, which ran between Ueno and Aomori, was retired in March 2014. Along with the Twilight Express, Cassiopeia, and Hokutosei, the only other overnight sleeper trains remaining are the Sunrise Seto, running between Tokyo and Takamatsu in Kagawa Prefecture, and the Sunrise Izumo, running between Tokyo and Izumoshi in Shimane Prefecture. It was recently announced that the Twilight Express will be retired in spring 2015 due to age. This is a huge drop in Blue Trains, particularly when one considers that at their peak in 1975, they were making a total of 39 regular round-trip runs on a daily basis.

Along with the extension of Shinkansen lines—JR Hokkaidō plans to begin Shinkansen service between Aomori and Hakodate in March 2016, for instance—factors that have contributed to the decline in sleepers include the building of regional airports, the growth of inexpensive intercity bus services, and the nationwide spread of low-cost good-quality business hotel chains.

Shouldn't this be on the International Board--I don't see how it relates to US trains except maybe wishful thinking on the part of some. Unless, of course, you're suggesting that when the California HSR is built, the Lark and Owl should be dropped.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/14 16:31 by Ptolemy.

Ptolemy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shouldn't this be on the International Board--I
> don't see how it relates to US trains except maybe
> wishful thinking on the part of some. Unless, of
> course, you're suggesting that when the California
> HSR is built, the Lark and Owl should be dropped.


This is the Passenger Train board -- not the U.S. board. For that, please see Eastern and Western Railroads.

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ptolemy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Shouldn't this be on the International Board--I
> > don't see how it relates to US trains except
> maybe
> > wishful thinking on the part of some. Unless,
> of
> > course, you're suggesting that when the
> California
> > HSR is built, the Lark and Owl should be
> dropped.
>
>
> This is the Passenger Train board -- not the U.S.
> board. For that, please see Eastern and Western
> Railroads.


<grins>

Posted from Android

I would agree that this subject is more appropriate for the International board, but can't dispute that it is about passenger trains, too, and this discussion board's name does not specify North American although its subject matter is predominantly from the U.S. and Canada.

Come on, despite the sophistry from the usual suspects, we all know the reason this is on the Passenger Train board, which almost never has news from outside the US unless it fits the negative agenda of some. Look back and see when the last time the Passenger Train board had anything from outside the US. Does anyone really want to see the Passenger Train board loaded down with news from outside the US: be careful what you ask for.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/14 18:05 by Ptolemy.

How long does it take to travel from one end of Japan to the other?

Ptolemy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Come on, despite the sophistry from the usual
> suspects, we all know the reason this is on the
> Passenger Train board, which almost never has news
> from outside the US unless it fits the negative
> agenda of some.

That's right. If we keep it on the Passenger Train board, it can preach the "doom and gloom" message right alongside all the bashing of Amtrak!

Double your pleasure, double your fun!

CA_Sou_MA_Agent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ptolemy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Come on, despite the sophistry from the usual
> > suspects, we all know the reason this is on the
> > Passenger Train board, which almost never has
> news
> > from outside the US unless it fits the negative
> > agenda of some.
>
> That's right. If we keep it on the Passenger
> Train board, it can preach the "doom and gloom"
> message right alongside all the bashing of Amtrak!
>
>
> Double your pleasure, double your fun!

You got it!

kdrtrains Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How long does it take to travel from one end of
> Japan to the other?

I can answer that, but I'll do that on the International Board on one of my future reports.

What the OP fails to mention is how the airlines in Japan had to eliminate routes due to the increases in frequency and speed of the Shinkansens. That's going to scare some very powerful corporations in the U.S., who'll find ways to make sure CA HSR never gets off the ground.

In Japan, passenger rail equipment manufacturers yield considerable influence, and if I recall, Tokyu Corporation owns a large number of Japan Airlines stocks. There IS no American-owned passenger rail manufacturing corporations that I can think of right now. If they don't exist, they don't yield influence, and your average politician won't care (about passenger rail).

Anyway, there's no need to take any agendas here seriously, implied, sarcastic or otherwise, because as the OP have said in the past, "We are not Japan." :-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/14 19:41 by cchan006.

kdrtrains Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How long does it take to travel from one end of
> Japan to the other?

Via train or B-25?

Good One!

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Nippon.com:
>
> Perhaps the biggest strike against Blue Trains is
> the time they take to reach their destinations. As
> the country continues to age, we must take into
> account the desire of the middle-aged and elderly
> to take it easy, which inclines them to prefer
> shorter travel times.

I didn't think rushing on expensive airline and high speed train flights with the masses is "taking it easy". Unless you are in first class.

Maybe others have a different idea?

Ptolemy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Come on, despite the sophistry from the usual
> suspects, we all know the reason this is on the
> Passenger Train board, which almost never has news
> from outside the US unless it fits the negative
> agenda of some. Look back and see when the last
> time the Passenger Train board had anything from
> outside the US. Does anyone really want to see
> the Passenger Train board loaded down with news
> from outside the US: be careful what you ask for.

Exactly. Whose up for Chicago--LA or LA--New Orleans in coach?!? Oh, I forgot. So many on here do not think that those two services should exist in the first place--thanks for reminding us all!!! ;-)

Red Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ptolemy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Come on, despite the sophistry from the usual
> > suspects, we all know the reason this is on the
> > Passenger Train board, which almost never has
> news
> > from outside the US unless it fits the negative
> > agenda of some. Look back and see when the
> last
> > time the Passenger Train board had anything
> from
> > outside the US. Does anyone really want to see
> > the Passenger Train board loaded down with news
> > from outside the US: be careful what you ask
> for.
>
> Exactly. Whose up for Chicago--LA or LA--New
> Orleans in coach?!? Oh, I forgot. So many on here
> do not think that those two services should exist
> in the first place--thanks for reminding us all!!!
> ;-)


Hey Red, how long is Japan? What's the longest train ride you can take there?
I can tell you it a LOT shorter then your LA to Chicago example.
Apples to oranges man, apples to oranges.

Ptolemy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shouldn't this be on the International Board--I
> don't see how it relates to US trains except maybe
> wishful thinking on the part of some. Unless, of
> course, you're suggesting that when the California
> HSR is built, the Lark and Owl should be dropped.


I'm guessing it's because the topic will get more "coverage" here on the Passenger Board. Going by my tendencies anyway. Who cares?

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reindeerflame Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > From Nippon.com:
> >
> > Perhaps the biggest strike against Blue Trains
> is
> > the time they take to reach their destinations.
> As
> > the country continues to age, we must take into
> > account the desire of the middle-aged and
> elderly
> > to take it easy, which inclines them to prefer
> > shorter travel times.
>
> I didn't think rushing on expensive airline and
> high speed train flights with the masses is
> "taking it easy". Unless you are in first class.
>
> Maybe others have a different idea?

While aging population in Japan is a popular topic of discussion there, I doubt it was a big factor in the decline of sleeper trains. Besides, OP's thread title is not accurate, since Japan started to eliminate sleeper trains in earnest back in 2005, so they preempted the European elimination of LD trains the OP has so touted recently. Not the "latest country." Yawn.

The elimination of sleeper trains in Japan coincided with aging equipment. Change in travel habits (Shinkansen, budget business hotels) certainly influenced JR Group's decision not to purchase anymore sleeper cars, yet Series 285 Sleeper Limited Express EMU used for the Sunrise Seto and Izumo services were retrofitted recently to extend their life, so there's still demand for overnight rail travel in Japan. The older 583 Series Sleeper EMUs are still around, NOT scrapped, used infrequently to prolong their useful life, often used for charter and special runs.

As I reported in the International Discussion back in March, my return trip on the Sunrise was sold out, so I was forced to ride the Shinkansen (poor me). In Japan, high speed rail, overnight rail travel, and airline travel can coexist, and why not in the U.S. also? So anticipating the death of Amtrak LD trains due to HSR is way way overrated. It's only worth debating when the high speed trains besides the Acela are actually running, and when will THAT be?

We have to remember that the OP posted this information not as a matter of communication or general interest, but part of his agenda to prove that sleeping cars are not a viable part of rail transportation, in the hopes that this theory will take hold in the US and ruin the LD trains. That is why he gleefully posts on the Passenger Train Board (not the more appropriate European or International Boards) these reports of discontinuances of sleeping cars all over the world. Despite the insistence by him and his cronies that these reports are fine to post on the Passenger Train Board, something that of course strains credulity, we all know better and realize that they are placed there to catch the eye of people who may not travel beyond the US (or have no interest in foreign trains) in an attempt to influence them into believing that trains don't need sleepers.