Passenger Trains > Amtrak Considers Selling Real Estate for Development

Amtrak Considers Selling Real Estate for Development
Bloomberg
by David M. Levitt
Oct 23, 2014

> Amtrak will consider selling or leasing real estate it owns in New
> York, Washington, Baltimore, Chicago and Philadelphia as part of a
> plan to raise money, the U.S. passenger rail operator’s chairman
> said.
>
> The intercity railroad needs funds to keep up with a system that has
> seen record ridership, Chairman Anthony Coscia said during a panel
> discussion at a Manhattan conference sponsored by the Urban Land
> Institute. Among the sites under review is Sunnyside Yard in western
> Queens, which is used by Amtrak, the Long Island Rail Road and New
> Jersey Transit.
>
> A sale or rental of rail yards would open up land for development in
> the five cities, following the examples of Hudson Yards in Manhattan
> and Atlantic Yards in downtown Brooklyn, both Long Island Rail Road
> staging areas. The projects account for about $25 billion of present
> and planned development in New York by Related Cos. and Forest City
> Ratner Cos. (FCE/A), respectively.
>
> “We own a ton of real estate assets, and they’re all in center-city
> areas in very active, vibrant places where development is a true
> opportunity,” Coscia said at the conference. Selling or leasing sites
> “would have the benefit of helping urban development in places where
> we have a very significant service area, but equally a financial
> value to Amtrak, because we could monetize real estate assets.”
>
> Amtrak is doing “due diligence” on the sites, and should be in a
> position to approach developers by March, he said.


Full story:

Amtrak Considers Selling Real Estate for Development

Amtrak's locations are also well served by other mass transit, making development even more attractive.

The NY MTA did extremely well in the development of the Barclay's Center in Brooklyn (over LIRR and several subway lines), and the Time Warner Center on Columbus Circle (over a warren of subway lines).

FWIW, I'd like to see Amtrak retain a share of any development revenues over the long term. Selling the interest now would be a mistake, IMHO

This is nothing new. Development at and near major urban rail terminals dates back 100 years when New York Central built Grand Central Terminal. Other pre-1970s air rights developments over railroad property include Cleveland (Cleveland Union Terminal), Chicago (Chicago & Northwestern and Illinois Central) and El Paso, TX (Southern Pacific).

Great Idea, Where is Brand New Superliners car order at, with all this cash??

railcity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great Idea, Where is Brand New Superliners car
> order at, with all this cash??

in your head.

To; railcity

I know you're joking; but Amtrak could very well fund a Super-Liner order this way, and heck of a lot more.

Real Estate values for prime locations in these Eastern cities (especially Manhattan) are astronomical compared to the rest of the U.S. And foreign investor can't seem to get enough.

Amtrak could be sitting on property worth Billions to developers like Donald Trump; Harvey Silverstein; and maybe even FEC, Inds.

I'm with Lakawanna484. I hope Amtrak leases their property, rather than selling it outright; then, they will have a long term source of income. Yet, a sale will produce a lot of cash right away--for those Super Liners, maybe.

Either way, it's a happy choice for Mr. Boardman. Some would call it a "Champagne Problem" (a problem, yes; but a very sweet one).

Joe

Somehow I would picture the outcome to be clever removal of property from Amtrak and transferring it to the wealthy and politically connected to the detriment of everyone else.

Michael

emd_mrs1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Somehow I would picture the outcome to be clever
> removal of property from Amtrak and transferring
> it to the wealthy and politically connected to the
> detriment of everyone else.
>
> Michael

I'm SHOCKED! SHOCKED! that ....

Well, you know.

How much extra, unused space is their at Sunnyside? I know the yard is not nearly as big as it was in its PRR heyday, but they still service quite a few NJT and Amtrak trains. I know Race Street yard in Philadelphia appears to have unused space.

As an aside but one that involves real estate and railroads, in Lincoln, NE, the BNSF developed land west of the old Lincoln Railroad station to where it is now a popular, vibrant area. It is called the Railyard, and has numerous new hotels, restaurants, apartments, parking garages, and the new Pinnacle Bank arena where UNL plays basketball. The area had been open space with a few mainline tracks running through it. BNSF realigned their mainline, a new Amtrak station was built, and the railroad (Warren Buffet) made a pile of money on the real estate deal!

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Amtrak could be sitting on property worth Billions
> to developers like Donald Trump; Harvey
> Silverstein; and maybe even FEC, Inds.
>
> I'm with Lakawanna484. I hope Amtrak leases their
> property, rather than selling it outright; then,
> they will have a long term source of income. Yet,
> a sale will produce a lot of cash right away--for
> those Super Liners, maybe.
> >
> Joe

The best return on investment would be to strike a deal where indeed Amtrak "leases" or ends up with some sort of licensing agreement that will bring in a continuous revenue stream, as opposed to an "instant gratification" of cash now. Too many times corporations - including the PRR, NYC, Penn Central, and even Amtrak - went down the later route and it was just a "temporary fix" without looking at the whole spectrum. I would hate also to see Amtrak "sell" the real estate that may seem "empty" now and then years from now they need it for expansion......so some due diligence is needed.

And perhaps with the sale - can they pay for the new Viewliners then? :-)

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amtrak could be sitting on property worth Billions
> to developers like Donald Trump; Harvey
> Silverstein; and maybe even FEC, Inds.

Trump can't do it, he's got ebola, or at least that is what his Twitter account would have you believe.
Cheers,
Nick

Amtrak is sitting on a gold mine at Chicago. The way the downtown has expanded in the last decade or two, it is only a matter of time until 14th St. is deemed to valuable for a rail yard. I'm not sure if it can be built over like they did to the old Union Station concourse, platforms, and now the North & South throats? Of course, ideally you want the yard facility close to the terminal to reduce your deadhead times and costs.

fulham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How much extra, unused space is their at
> Sunnyside? I know the yard is not nearly as big
> as it was in its PRR heyday, but they still
> service quite a few NJT and Amtrak trains. I know
> Race Street yard in Philadelphia appears to have
> unused space.

Amtrak in Philadelphia has a lot of land between its yards and SEPTA's Powleton Yard that could be vacated that Drexel University is very interested in. Fortunately, it would be easy to relocate many functions out towards vacant Amtrak land between Zoo and Valley interlockings. There are also relocation options into locations like Margie St. Yard near North Philly.

Sunnyside has relatively little extra space. The idea there would be an overbuild, not outright vacating of land.

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Amtrak could be sitting on property worth Billions
> to developers like Donald Trump; Harvey
> Silverstein; and maybe even FEC, Inds.

Just remember what is being advocated here - converting public property acquired for the current and future benefit and needs of the travelling public into a source of profit for billionaire oligarchs.

This is in line with other efforts to convert the cash flow of public spending and revenue streams for the real benefit of further enriching the 0.01% such as "privatizing" public education, "privatizing" Amtrak and Commuter rail operations, "Public-Private-Partnerships", leases/sales of public assets such as toll roads and parking meters, etc. There benefits of these efforts are nebulous or non-existent to most of the public.

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> floridajoe2001 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Amtrak could be sitting on property worth
> Billions
> > to developers like Donald Trump; Harvey
> > Silverstein; and maybe even FEC, Inds.
>
> Just remember what is being advocated here -
> converting public property acquired for the
> current and future benefit and needs of the
> travelling public into a source of profit for
> billionaire oligarchs.
>
> This is in line with other efforts to convert the
> cash flow of public spending and revenue streams
> for the real benefit of further enriching the
> 0.01% such as "privatizing" public education,
> "privatizing" Amtrak and Commuter rail operations,
> "Public-Private-Partnerships", leases/sales of
> public assets such as toll roads and parking
> meters, etc. There benefits of these efforts are
> nebulous or non-existent to most of the public.


Yes, the public schools work so well for inner city kids. That's why parents sign up for waiting lists of 200,000 names for charter school opening slots. Even at $50,000 per year investment per kid in the public schools, many teachers don't teach, and many kids don't learn. [/sarcasm]

That's why I advocated joint arrangements where Amtrak gets a healthy piece of the future cash flows from development. Not just a fire sale give away of assets that somebody else can develop. NY MTA has already received a chunk of cash from Hudson Yards development and will receive a slice of royalties for the part over their rail yard for decades.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/14 10:31 by Lackawanna484.

Seemed like leasing or selling rights above Penn Station was how Amtrak came up with the funding for the Acelas. Wow, sell off the family jewels and invest it in new computers and IT that will be worthless before the contractors even finish installing it. Great deal for taxpayers. Next thing you know somebody will be telling me that Conrail is being given away to feather the nest of Carl Ichan.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/14 09:59 by NewRiverGeorge.

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Amtrak in Philadelphia has a lot of land between
> its yards and SEPTA's Powleton Yard that could be
> vacated that Drexel University is very interested
> in.

Not sure how you could vacate Powelton Yard......where would SEPTA move to?

Just to clarify...are we talking about

--moving the yards elsewhere?

--or selling air rights above the existing yards, with the yards continuing to operate where they are?

Different responses to this thread seem to assume different answers.

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To; railcity
>
> I know you're joking; but Amtrak could very well
> fund a Super-Liner order this way, and heck of a
> lot more.
>
> Real Estate values for prime locations in these
> Eastern cities (especially Manhattan) are
> astronomical compared to the rest of the U.S. And
> foreign investor can't seem to get enough.
>
> Amtrak could be sitting on property worth Billions
> to developers like Donald Trump; Harvey
> Silverstein; and maybe even FEC, Inds.
>
> I'm with Lakawanna484. I hope Amtrak leases their
> property, rather than selling it outright; then,
> they will have a long term source of income. Yet,
> a sale will produce a lot of cash right away--for
> those Super Liners, maybe.
>
> Either way, it's a happy choice for Mr. Boardman.
> Some would call it a "Champagne Problem" (a
> problem, yes; but a very sweet one).
>
> Joe

I'd like to memorialize this response to note that FloridaJoe and I do agree on issues from time to time.


<G>

chs7-321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> abyler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Amtrak in Philadelphia has a lot of land
> between
> > its yards and SEPTA's Powleton Yard that could
> be
> > vacated that Drexel University is very
> interested
> > in.
>
> Not sure how you could vacate Powelton
> Yard......where would SEPTA move to?

As I said, just up the line between Zoo and Valley interlockings. There is a large amount of vacant land north of the right of way between 34rth Street and 52nd Street that used to be rail yards. Also Margie St. Yard half way to North Philadelphia is also available.