Passenger Trains > Odds Are, You're Suspicious Per Amtrak PD

Can't say I approve of this...

From HuffPost | 10/24/14:
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According to the Guidelines for Amtrak Customer Service Employees in Texas, which the ACLU has received as a result of a FOIA request,
ticket agents may come in contact with travelers whose conduct is "indicative of criminal activity." Amtrak says supposed indicators of such
activity should immediately be reported to trained law enforcement personnel. They include:

Unusual nervousness of traveler
Unusual calmness or straight ahead stare
Looking around while making telephone call(s)
Position among passengers disembarking (ahead of, or lagging behind passengers)
Carrying little or no luggage
Purchase of tickets in cash
Purchase tickets immediately prior to boarding

We have reason to believe that Amtrak's policies also provide grounds for civil asset forfeiture, a process that effectively allows cops to engage in
highway robbery, and often results in racial profiling. The documents we received include agreements between Amtrak and the Las Vegas Police
Department, Reno Police Department, and Louisiana state police. The agreements not only officially enable a practice of confiscating money and
property from passengers without due process, but also mandate "[e]quitable sharing of forfeited assets;" in other words, state agencies get a cut
of assets seized by Amtrak police.
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Agreements with Reno PD? Well that makes sense now. Reno PD shakes down CZ pax daily and Amtrak does nothing despite numerous complaints.
Why kill the Golden Goose?

>>> From the FOIA doc:
=========================================================================================
Defining Suspicious Activity

Be prepared to report anything that seems out of the ordinary. Suspicious activity may be defined as anyone:

• Quickly exiting an area after abandoning a package,
backpack, or luggage

• Taking unusual photos of equipment, infrastructure,
facilities, and secure areas

• Taking notes on operations, deliveries, services, and
other activities

• Drawing diagrams of stations or facilities

• Expressing an unusual level of interest in operations,
equipment, or personnel

• Appearing as an unfamiliar courier, repair personnel,
utility crew, or other "trusted employees" who are in
the wrong place

• Parked in a vehicle in an odd location, or parked too
close to company assets
=========================================================================================

Foamers beware...hide your cameras, notebooks, and interest in operations! Oy vey -- Law Enforcement has truly run amok.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/samia-hossain/odds-are-you-are-suspicious_b_6043440.html
https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/amtrak_foia_documents.pdf#page=35

The ACLU will keep our Country safe! LMAO!!!!!

Is one considered suspicious if you redeem guest reward points? That happened to me, officer didn't understand why I would take a "free" ride one way but return by air. ( cause I do that to save time and not blow my AGR points all at once).

Posted from iPhone

RFandPFan Wrote:
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> The ACLU will keep our Country safe! LMAO!!!!!

With crackerjack guidelines like these, we're in good hands. Just remind me not to stop and tie my shoe after detraining for fear of falling behind and looking suspicious. Perhaps a pair of dark shades can cover my roving eyes while I take a phone call at the station. Oh wait, dark shades would make me suspicious. Ain't Security Theater a hoot?

The Trinity Railway Express has had much the same policy for years--it's printed in their timetable. If you look lost or uncertain (might happen getting off the train in a strange town), you might be a terrorist.

I was doing pretty good at first but the more I read, the worse I got. Bring on the cuffs. Putting my hands behind me as soon as I hit the "Post message" button..
John

The civil forfeiture rules can be abused, that's for sure. I'm not surprised the Amtrak police department is looking for a good share of the loot. It can be very substantial, sometimes approaching the local agency's budget.

Here in NJ, you can get a double benefit. If the state police stop a "suspicious" car on I-80 and find $200,000 in cash, or a few pounds of cocaine, the local Police, the local prosecutor and the state police get a big piece of the proceeds. One county netted over a million bucks for its operations just from its share of stops. If somebody looks out of place (ie a person of color), or fails to signal a lane change, or is speeding along with everyone else, they're fair game. With two east-west drug highways, a a north-south gun corridor, there's a lot of cash to be had.

Amtrak is just getting in on everybody's good thing, good for them.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> Amtrak is just getting in on everybody's good
> thing, good for them.

I wish it was as simple as this. It isn't. Amtrak's foray into the murky and disingenuous world of Security Theater is disappointing. It is a world where ambiguity-riddled loopholes in defining what is suspicious are so big that you can drive a Mack truck through them. And Law Enforcement does so with reckless abandon.

Writing in my travel journal while waiting for my train? That's suspicious.
People watching at the station while I give my family a call? That's suspicious.
Taking a picture of the trailing unit of my departing train? An LEO having a bad day decides that photographing a locomotive is unusual. So that's suspicious.
My inbound train has arrived late, so I rush ahead of the others to catch my connecting train. Well, that's suspicious and "indicative of criminal activity" according to these asinine guidelines.

It is beyond ridiculous and cannot even be taken seriously anymore. Except that it becomes serious when an LEO gets in your face and interrogates you for no good reason other than because they abuse the purposeful ambiguity of these guidelines.

Back to the Reno 911 spectacle. I don't have so much as as a jaywalking ticket on my record. Sometimes I plan trips spontaneously, but just as often they're planned a few months or more in advance. But merely by virtue of traveling in sleeping accommodations as a single male, I run afoul of these asinine guidelines and have now become suspicious. I've had 4 incidents now where LEOs march into my room and demand to search my bags. If I resist, it's clear that they'll either hold up the train or take me off as they rummage while it rolls into the distance. The last time it happened, the crop-topped LEO was a prick. And so I laid into him heavily as he desperately ripped my bags apart. He was so infuriated that he was finding nothing while I was excoriating him for his incompetent profiling techniques, that as he stormed off, he was YELLING down the hall of the Sleeping Car that he would be searching the entire baggage car for my luggage. When I yelled back that I didn't check any bags, he mumbled "That's bullsh#t!!" and stormed off the train. We whistled off and left 10 seconds later. I later reported him and received what was the most token of apologies and an empty promise to do better.

What troubled me the most about this particular incident was how desperate this man was. How badly he wanted it to be true that I was ferrying drugs and money. And how infuriated he became as he began to realize what a big effing mistake he had made. But he wasn't angry about hassling me. Just angry that he wasn't going to be strutting back to his HQ with the spoils of a busted drug trafficker.

Just like the drugs they claim to be taking off the street, Law Enforcement has become ADDICTED to these forfeiture monies. And just like addicts, they will throw hissy fits when their "big score" turns out to be nothing more than an amateur-hour pipe dream. As I said, they have truly run amok.

The terrorists have won: they've created a nation of paranoids where everyone who is different is a potential terrorist.

I agree on principle that passengers may be subject to unwanted scrutiny in some of the cases on these long haul trains, but overall, these police departments do some amazing work at seizing drugs and making arrests. This is no small task and is a very dangerous element, too. Overall, I think that it's handled well and is necessary considering that the majority of passengers are willing to accept some invasion of privacy in return for a safe trip, but I realize, too, that not everyone sees it that way, hence the original post.

Posted from iPhone

Ptolemy Wrote:
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> The terrorists have won: they've created a nation
> of paranoids where everyone who is different is a
> potential terrorist.


Not just the terrorists, either. The "War on Drugs" has devolved into a work program for law enforcement. It fails to accomplish anything permanent about drugs, because as long as there's demand for such intoxicants, somebody will figure out how to fulfill that demand, legally or otherwise. But it sure keeps a lot of badges employed, and some of the people who take up that kind of work inherently distrust civilians along with needing to justify their existence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/14 12:05 by toledopatch.

I wonder what Amtrak PD thinks of "drone foaming"?

PHall Wrote:
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> I wonder what Amtrak PD thinks of "drone foaming"?

Suspicious with a capital S.

ColdRainAndSnow Wrote:
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> PHall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I wonder what Amtrak PD thinks of "drone
> foaming"?
>
> Suspicious with a capital S.

Just see what happens if you tell the officer you intend to audio record the interaction.


[FWIW, the process of a stop relies heavily on intimidation. And, relies on how the target reacts.

The vast majority of police officers are not stupid thugs. They're intelligent, well trained professionals. But they do recognize when a person uses the right code phrases, asks the right questions, and asks the officer to verify certain items over the radio.

I've turned around police stops on several occasions by mentioning an NJ Transit deputy chief of department by name, and by asking a town police lieutenant if his conduct was consistent with the (named) prosecutor's directives. You'd be amazed at how quickly the situation changes.

As I said, it's about understanding your rights and having your ducks lined up ahead of time. Being white, often well dressed, and speaking authoritatively helps, too.]

Erich Mielke would be proud.

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ptolemy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The terrorists have won: they've created a
> nation
> > of paranoids where everyone who is different is
> a
> > potential terrorist.
>
>
> Not just the terrorists, either. The "War on
> Drugs" has devolved into a work program for law
> enforcement. It fails to accomplish anything
> permanent about drugs, because as long as there's
> demand for such intoxicants, somebody will figure
> out how to fulfill that demand, legally or
> otherwise. But it sure keeps a lot of badges
> employed, and some of the people who take up that
> kind of work inherently distrust civilians along
> with needing to justify their existence.

Don't fret, soon enough drugs will be legal. Marijuana is only the beginning. Then you won't have to worry about it, just beware of all the zombies out there with their brains fried. And the foolish supposition that once drugs are legal that crime will drop, because we all know that druggies would NEVER steal to support their habit once they can buy their stuff legally.

I can say that several times recently I have taken Amtrak one way and flown the other, and not once was questioned by anyone nor been searched.

Ptolemy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The terrorists have won: they've created a nation
> of paranoids where everyone who is different is a
> potential terrorist.

Reminds me of that episode of The Twilight Zone . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_on_Maple_Street

Cole42 Wrote:
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> we all know that druggies would NEVER steal to support
> their habit once they can buy their stuff legally.

To some degree that holds true. As long as they get their monthly check or EBT from the Government.

"The documents we received include agreements between Amtrak and the Las Vegas Police Department . . ."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Las Vegas, Nevada? You mean the city that Amtrak stopped serving with the discontinuance of the DESERT WIND?

I wonder how many of these points (from AMT) have been created due to pressure from various law enforcement entities. Typically, a transportation entity is required to produce procedures, processes and lists in order to get funding and cooperation.

Homeland Security is one of those agencies that was overrun with consultants in its formation, and they (consultants) *LOVE* this sort of thing in their Policies & Procedures manuals (it's a deliverable, consultants LOVE deliverables because it proves they have actually done something (I have written MANY such manuals in former lives)). That's not to say Amtrak, as a quasi-governmental agency doesn't itself love that sort of thing as well. The problem is that a policies & procedures manual is one thing - but training and information is quite another thing.

When the ACLU and other such entities come into play, that will be a part of the narrative. Did Amtrak employees receive training, where did Amtrak receive the impetus for these policies, and are they relegated to Texas (a whole 'nother country), Nevada & New Mexico? Are these systematic policies, and if so, how is Amtrak training their employees and cooperating with local, state and federal law enforcement personnel. That Amtrak has never been famous for consistent, systematic and monitored training is well known. So that will enter into the whole theater production.

The terrorists won the afternoon of 9/11, and they scored major victories with the Patriot Act (sic), the establishment of the TSA & Homeland Security, and the constant fear mongering employed by major media (and politicians and extremists of all stripes).