Passenger Trains > First step toward Montreal service resumption

First step taken toward cross-border rail service
The Bennington Banner
by Hilary Niles
10/28/2014

> Cross-border passenger rail service is one agreement closer to being
> restored, state officials learned Monday. But even under the best
> circumstances, it's still years away.
>
> A crucial agreement has been reached between the U.S. and Canada to
> establish a U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) location in
> Montreal's Central Station. American agents on-site would screen
> passengers before they step on a southbound train. Canadian-bound
> passengers would not be screened until they arrive in Montreal.
>
> Amtrak's Montrealer passenger train ceased operations in 1995, and
> state and federal officials have been working ever since to get it
> back. In 2011, President Barack Obama and Canadian Prime Minister
> Stephen Harper signed the Beyond the Border Accord. For three years,
> the two countries' federal governments have been hammering out a
> proposal for how preclearance inspection in Montreal could operate.
>
> "Preclearance" now exists for air passengers at 15 locations in six
> foreign countries, according to the CBP website. U.S.-bound travelers
> are screened at their points of departure, rather than at their
> stateside destinations. Preclearance is not yet available for
> commercial transport or non-air travel.
>
> As logistics and security protocols are being worked out, rail
> officials on both sides of the border are in touch with Amtrak, with
> the expectation the private rail carrier will agree to pick up
> service to Montreal again.

LINK: (but... "private rail carrier?")

First step taken toward cross-border rail service

Why in the world do we need umpteen years to work out this agreement? Seems to me we already have the protocols in place in British Columbia when I rode Amtrak from Vancouver, BC into Seattle about two years ago, I was pre-screened by US ICE agents before boarding the train. The other ridiculous part of the trip--we were on board a "sealed" train that made no other stops in Canada and yet our train was stopped at the border crossing and the ICE agents conducted another inspection. Delay at border was some 15-20 minutes.

Marty Harrison
Knob Noster, MO

This should not be so complicated. Work it out in six months.

livesteamer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why in the world do we need umpteen years to work
> out this agreement? Seems to me we already have
> the protocols in place in British Columbia when I
> rode Amtrak from Vancouver, BC into Seattle about
> two years ago, I was pre-screened by US ICE agents
> before boarding the train. The other ridiculous
> part of the trip--we were on board a "sealed"
> train that made no other stops in Canada and yet
> our train was stopped at the border crossing and
> the ICE agents conducted another inspection.
> Delay at border was some 15-20 minutes.


Some of the delay may be working out protocols in the labor agreements for the border crossing staff on both sides. There will be a change in location, may be a change in staffing (does Canadian border security have a staff in Montreal Central station, etc?) which will trigger new bidding rights, etc.

My question ties back to the nature of the southbound traffic. During the summer, it's not unusual for the Adirondack to have 30% to 40% non-US and non-Canadian passengers aboard. Danes, Germans, Kiwis, African folks of various nations, etc. The visa issue is always present.

(As is the stupid requirement that non-US visitors must pay for their paperwork in US currency. No credit cards or loonies. And no advance warning as far as I can tell. On our last visit, we probably invested $20 in world friendship by paying forward the fees for several kids traveling on school break.)

Where are the East Germans when you need them? They could process a train full of passengers in a few minutes.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> (As is the stupid requirement that non-US visitors
> must pay for their paperwork in US currency. No
> credit cards or loonies. And no advance warning as
> far as I can tell. On our last visit, we probably
> invested $20 in world friendship by paying forward
> the fees for several kids traveling on school
> break.)

=========================================================

On a visit to China about a decade ago, we had to pay our exit fees in Chinese money
only. But nobody would tell us how much they would be, and as one went through the maze
of checkpoints at the train station (rail-related!) and the "I am important" officials,
each with one of the seemingly mandatory poor-fitting uniforms and a hat that looked four
sizes too big, one was given no advance notice of what would be encountered next. At
one, the official filled out a bunch of papers and gave them to us...and the official
at the next one took them from us! Once past the exit fee payment point, one could no
longer exchange Chinese money (this was when there was a two-tier Chinese currency: the
People's Money which was good only within China, and the Foreign Exchange Certificates
which could be taken out of the country and exchanged). So whatever you had left, you were
stuck with.

Bureaucratic attempts to separate foreigners from their money are everywhere...and
this doesn't even include corruption in places like Mexico...



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/14 14:31 by GenePoon.

Ah yes! I remember the FEC and Renminbi deal. Fortunately at the Nepal Tibet border the Tibetans were always happy to give you US Greenbacks for Renminbi o vice versa at some very questionable rates though. As a matter of fact it was hard to come by any FECs in Tibet. We just picked up a bunch of Renminbi in exchange for Dollars at the border in Zhangmu, where they said they had no FECs left. and then on the way back just changed the remaining stuff back to Dollars in Lhasa before going to the airport. You could get almost any currency you wanted in Barkhor Bazaar. Tibet was a law unto itself! We were told it was better to do it this way even though most would simply accept Dollars too except at even more questionable rates. :)

After the customs problem gets "solved", then people will move to the next problem, namely, who will pay for the operating losses of the Montreal extension? And that can be expected to take another several years or more. After all, we already have a train to Montreal.

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After the customs problem gets "solved", then
> people will move to the next problem, namely, who
> will pay for the operating losses of the Montreal
> extension? And that can be expected to take
> another several years or more. After all, we
> already have a train to Montreal.


My recollection of a few Montrealer trips was very slow running north of the border. And frequent stops. Made the Adirondack look like a jack rabbit in comparison.

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After the customs problem gets "solved", then
> people will move to the next problem, namely, who
> will pay for the operating losses of the Montreal
> extension? And that can be expected to take
> another several years or more. After all, we
> already have a train to Montreal.


We have a train to Montreal? Yes, and I have a book.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/14 14:31 by Ptolemy.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> My recollection of a few Montrealer trips was very
> slow running north of the border. And frequent
> stops. Made the Adirondack look like a jack
> rabbit in comparison.

=================================================

My Montrealer trips, for some reason, were all southbound and I slept well.

After boarding at Gare Centrale in Montreal, I'd settle into the roomette. The
attendant would recommend that I get ready but not get changed out of day clothes
until the Customs/Immigration clearance. Maybe it's my imagination but it seemed
that the border checks then, not just on the train but in general, were more
congenial, which might (surprise, surprise!) have made the border-crossing citizens
more cooperative, too. After the formalities were done, I'd change and fall fast
asleep, sometimes awakening to the LURCH as the train reversed into Springfield
station. On one trip after 1989, when the Montrealer was bypassing Springfield, I
slept all the way from Customs-Immigrations clearance past New London CT and had
to be awakened so I could detrain at Stamford. To this day I can say I have
ridden a passenger train between Palmer MA and New London CT, but don't remember
a thing.

Does anyone remember the big Montrealer wreck in 1984? Five died, two of them
railroaders: an Amtrak attendant and a Central Vermont Railway conductor. The
train ran across a washed-out culvert at speed and wrecked into a flooded creek.
Amtrak was faulted for not having a radio in the engine capable of operating
on the frequencies of the Central Vermont Railway; and it was recommended that
Amtrak retrofit passenger cars for better retention of the seats in a wreck.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/14 15:00 by GenePoon.

I remember reading about the Montrealer wreck at Williston, VT. Washout occurred because a beaver dam broke during a cloudburst and there was a flash flood on the Winooski River.

Amazing that the train did not have a CV-capable radio in the locomotive, but presumably that only affected response rather than preventing the wreck.

"My recollection of a few Montrealer trips was very slow running north of the border. And frequent stops. Made the Adirondack look like a jack rabbit in comparison."

That can't be true because the route is identical north of Cantic, which is 4 miles north of La Colle, which is where the Adirondack crosses the US/Canadian Iron Curtain. The situation is actually the opposite of what you say because the Adirondack must stop at Cantic, throw the switch, the train walks by, then normalizes the switch again, which is normally pointed to Vermont, and the conductor (or flagman) jumps back on.

LaColle - Cantic is 15 minutes
Cantic - St Jean is 25 minutes
St Jean - Brossard is 20 minutes
Brossard - St Lambert is 20 minutes
St Lambert - Montreal is 15 minutes.

Every segment above means crawling through a curve at a junction at 10 - 15 MPH.
Top speed on the Quebec side is 49 MPH.

La Colle - Montreal is only 48 miles.

Extending the Vermonter to Montreal ought to be cheap - the train empties out as it is further north, and there is nothing at St Albans. Incremental revenue ought to exceed incremental cost. Imagine if the Adirondack terminated at Rousses Point with no bus connection to Montreal. It wouldn't fill half a coach. The CN unions are no longer interested in making a fuss about staffing it north of St Albans.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/14 16:33 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "My recollection of a few Montrealer trips was
> very slow running north of the border. And
> frequent stops. Made the Adirondack look like a
> jack rabbit in comparison."
>
> That can't be true because the route is identical
> north of Cantic, which is 4 miles north of La
> Colle, which is where the Adirondack crosses the
> US/Canadian Iron Curtain. The situation is
> actually the opposite of what you say because the
> Adirondack must stop at Cantic, throw the switch,
> the train walks by, then normalizes the switch
> again, which is normally pointed to Vermont, and
> the conductor (or flagman) jumps back on.
>
> LaColle - Cantic is 15 minutes
> Cantic - St Jean is 25 minutes
> St Jean - Brossard is 20 minutes
> Brossard - St Lambert is 20 minutes
> St Lambert - Montreal is 15 minutes.
>
> Every segment above means crawling through a curve
> at a junction at 10 - 15 MPH.
> Top speed on the Quebec side is 49 MPH.
>
> La Colle - Montreal is only 48 miles.
> (snip)

My trips on the Montrealer were generally northbound, with the Adirondack southbound. But I don't recall the Adirondack in Canada being stop-start, stop-start until my last trip.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "My recollection of a few Montrealer trips was
> > very slow running north of the border. And
> > frequent stops. Made the Adirondack look like a
> > jack rabbit in comparison."
> >
> > That can't be true because the route is
> identical
> > north of Cantic, which is 4 miles north of La
> > Colle, which is where the Adirondack crosses
> the
> > US/Canadian Iron Curtain. The situation is
> > actually the opposite of what you say because
> the
> > Adirondack must stop at Cantic, throw the
> switch,
> > the train walks by, then normalizes the switch
> > again, which is normally pointed to Vermont,
> and
> > the conductor (or flagman) jumps back on.
> >
> > LaColle - Cantic is 15 minutes
> > Cantic - St Jean is 25 minutes
> > St Jean - Brossard is 20 minutes
> > Brossard - St Lambert is 20 minutes
> > St Lambert - Montreal is 15 minutes.
> >
> > Every segment above means crawling through a
> curve
> > at a junction at 10 - 15 MPH.
> > Top speed on the Quebec side is 49 MPH.
> >
> > La Colle - Montreal is only 48 miles.
> > (snip)
>
> My trips on the Montrealer were generally
> northbound, with the Adirondack southbound. But I
> don't recall the Adirondack in Canada being
> stop-start, stop-start until my last trip.


I was on the Adirondack recently, southbound, and yes, there is some slow running (excruciatingly so through St.-Jean), and there is the hand-thrown switch, but otherwise we moved along.

The route from Montreal Central Station to St. Lambert is of course signaled. But from that point south, there are only signals at junctions. Switches are hand throw. We traveled about 60 mph at some points. Between Cantic & St. Albans, there was a slow trestle on the north end of Lake Champlain. It is only 69 miles, but agonizingly slow at some points.

Running time: two hours.

Nevertheless, this train is very much needed and will be popular.

stash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This should not be so complicated. Work it out in
> six months.

Or we could of course go with the totally crazy premise that border checks are not needed for people travelling between the US and Canada but only for commercial trucks to enforce customs laws.

You know, like there is no border check between Vermont and New Hampshire, for example, or Ontario and Quebec, or now in Europe between any Schengen agreement country.

Or like there was no border control with Canada in the past until prohibition.

I know, I know, wild and radical concept. Suddenly surplused and unemployed Border agents would need to be redeployed to the Rio Grande, or tasked with doing useful work instead of harassing ordinary people on a trip, etc.

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> stash Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This should not be so complicated. Work it out
> in
> > six months.
>
> Or we could of course go with the totally crazy
> premise that border checks are not needed for
> people travelling between the US and Canada but
> only for commercial trucks to enforce customs
> laws.
>
> You know, like there is no border check between
> Vermont and New Hampshire, for example, or Ontario
> and Quebec, or now in Europe between any Schengen
> agreement country.
>
> Or like there was no border control with Canada in
> the past until prohibition.
>
> I know, I know, wild and radical concept.
> Suddenly surplused and unemployed Border agents
> would need to be redeployed to the Rio Grande, or
> tasked with doing useful work instead of harassing
> ordinary people on a trip, etc.

Canada's traditionally open arms to visitors / immigrants might create some problems for the US. Canada has open relations with Cuba, Iran, etc and has an active community of Kashmiri separatists of both sides. They occasionally blow up planes etc to express their wishes for a different kind of world.

I've mentioned my encounter with the police chief in border town Richford VT in the past. He "interviewed" me years ago as I was waiting for the CP switcher to begin work for the day. My NJ plates drew him like a magnet. No problems for me.

About six months later he spotted two Iranian kids walking down the tracks from Canada with duffel bags. He waited for their pickup car to arrive from NYC, then arrested the group of them. They were carrying explosive devices, etc.

I recall the Montrealer as being a class train, at least at one point. Piano player and everything!!! I've ridden it both ways, but in the 90s, I think. That was part of a trip to Halifax on the Atlantic. I remember being up most of the night in the dome! Oh, and I remember the Canadian customs people on board the train, and very, very nice. Quite a difference.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/14 17:23 by SpeederDriver.