Passenger Trains > CT Seeking operator for Springfield Line commuter servi

Although Amtrak owns the New Haven-Springfield line and would continue to operate its own trains, CT has issued an RFQ for others to operate the commuter trains. Press release can be accessed by clicking on http://www.ct.gov/dot/cwp/view.asp?A=1373&Q=558278

Andy

This concept has worked out so well in Indiana...

But how about Virginia, Caltrain and MBTA in the Boston area?

You can't blame an agency for wanting to see what someone besides Amtrak
can do, and in most instances where commuter agencies have done this,
they went for the private operator. Others went private from the start
(Sounder, Coaster, ACE as examples).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/14 12:23 by GenePoon.

GenePoon Wrote:
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> But how about Virginia, Caltrain and MBTA in the
> Boston area?
>
> You can't blame an agency for wanting to see what
> someone besides Amtrak
> can do, and in most instances where commuter
> agencies have done this,
> they went for the private operator. Others went
> private from the start
> (Sounder, Coaster, ACE as examples).

True enough, but those are pretty much standalone operations while this only makes sense tightly integrated with the NEC. While Amtrak is surely no model of efficiency, I don't believe their biggest issues are from bad operations management. Their biggest issues are about $$ and political crap. Private operators aren't going to solve that as long as the $$ still has to come from the feds or state gov't.

wtsherman100 Wrote:
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> True enough, but those are pretty much standalone
> operations while this only makes sense tightly
> integrated with the NEC. While Amtrak is surely
> no model of efficiency, I don't believe their
> biggest issues are from bad operations management.

Not just the NEC, but Metro North and the Shore Line East operation. You would think the goal is to run the commuter trains to Stamford, no?

Only MBTA trains that operate on Amtrak are those that cross into Rhode Island. MBTA or state owns the tracks from Boston to the Rhode Island Line. True Amtrak does dispatch that section of line, but only because of the Acela's.

Does CT have plans to run other rail services, such as to the airport?

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> Does CT have plans to run other rail services,
> such as to the airport?


No

asull85 Wrote:
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> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Does CT have plans to run other rail services,
> > such as to the airport?
>
>
> No

Thank you.

So a "one off" contract operator is even more curious.

Wurli1938 Wrote:
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> Only MBTA trains that operate on Amtrak are those
> that cross into Rhode Island. MBTA or state owns
> the tracks from Boston to the Rhode Island Line.
> True Amtrak does dispatch that section of line,
> but only because of the Acela's.

Amtrak operates, dispatches, and maintains the NEC from Boston to New Haven, including all of the MA owned section to the Rhode Island state line.

The plan is for Shoreline East train to have M8 equipment and for the Shoreline East equipment to operate on the Springfield line. What will be interesting to see who takes part in the bidding for the operation. I have also heard rumors of the Shoreline East equipment being used on the Waterbury branch, but is there enough for both services and will Metro North run both. We have another two years to wiggle through the changes that will probably occur.

When the New Haven-Springfield concept was initiated, it was discussed that we hoped Vermont and Massachusetts would initiate equal concepts in their state. Well, they have and they beat Connecticut to the punch. The main reason being the complexity of the Connecticut project including urban development consideration as well as double tracking with all the support for frequent service.

Hopefully we will see someday a White River early morning train to New York with a return in the evening. Vermonter is projected to operate through to Montreal. I suspect that the future will bring some through commuter trains to Greenfield.

Watch out for a moving target!

"The Department is committed to an open process and welcomes the participation of its current contractors (Metro-North and Amtrak) as well as others in the industry."

This is providing COMMUTER SERVICE for a 62 mile line. We've been through the debate of whether Amtrak should be in the commuter operating business. Yes, Amtrak PROVIDES crews and its own "expertise" to operate State owned rail equipment (e.g. MARC, various West Coast services). And I think it should go after this type of business. Amtrak has been losing commuter contracts, which is not a good thing.

But lets not think that this is not the opportunity for Amtrak to step up and have Amfleet cars plying the route JUST between Hartford and New Haven. As the article indicates the State of CT is still planning on Amtrak to operate the "Shuttle Service" between New Haven and SPRINGFIELD. Any carve out of that should be done with state owned commuter rail cars.

If Amtrak is not the one that is chosen to operate the commuter service, then Amtrak gets to charge an "access fee" (just like NJT and SEPTA has to pay a fee to Amtrak for usage of the NEC) to the non-Amtrak operator, as Amtrak owns the rails from New Haven to Springfield. I would also go a step further and say that Amtrak should re-examine how it operates and dispatches the Springfield line if it is not chosen as the operator, as Amtrak may want to reduce the amount of shuttles, operating crews, stops, and/or how and what equipment is used.

David Gunn increased Springfield Shuttle Service frequencies during a couple schedules during his term in office as a way to get better efficiency out of the operating crews. At that time it was met with mix success, as I recall. But of course this new "commuter" plan by State of Connecticut - more stops, improved station facilities etc. - is a different story.....

The Springfield line was where the SPV2000's were tried by Amtrak, and I think was one of the last mainline passenger uses of RDC's in the United States.

Amtrak likely has to play negotiations carefully too, as the State of Connecticut owns the NEC through part of Connecticut to New Haven.

Any idea what CT thinks is CTRail's commutation destination? Is it Hartford or New Haven or both? Or NYC? Not likely to be Springfield, I'm guessing.

There isn't enough CDOT equipment (SLE) to run on Springfield Line as well as the MNRR branches. The plan is to run most of the trains NHV-HFD with a few continuing on to SPG. My guess is that either Amtrak or Keolis (gag) wins the contract. If Amtrak loses the bid, that may spell the end of the Springfield crewbase.

asull85 Wrote:
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> There isn't enough CDOT equipment (SLE) to run on
> Springfield Line as well as the MNRR branches. The
> plan is to run most of the trains NHV-HFD with a
> few continuing on to SPG. My guess is that either
> Amtrak or Keolis (gag) wins the contract. If
> Amtrak loses the bid, that may spell the end of
> the Springfield crewbase.


What is the expected speed limit for the updated section of the New Haven to Springfield line?

I'm thinking the CT folks could buy / lease some of the NJ Transit 5000 series cab cars, which aren't currently used as cab cars.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/14 05:55 by Lackawanna484.

asull85 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There isn't enough CDOT equipment (SLE) to run on
> Springfield Line as well as the MNRR branches. The
> plan is to run most of the trains NHV-HFD with a
> few continuing on to SPG. My guess is that either
> Amtrak or Keolis (gag) wins the contract. If
> Amtrak loses the bid, that may spell the end of
> the Springfield crewbase.

Why?

Amtrak should be focusing on running through trains from Springfield to New York and beyond. In fact, the best thing Amtrak could do would be to through route the Springfield shuttles with the Keystones by increasing frequency from New York to New Haven. There is plenty of business for them in the Hartford to NYC and Philly market and the New Haven to NYC and Philly market, it does not require any new equipment, and it would open space at Sunnyside Yard and provide for an earlier morning arrival in NYC than present. The other thing Amtrak should be doing is running trains on the inland route again to reopen the Worcester-NYC and Boston-Hartford markets. Instead of parking several trains in Sunnyside all day, these trains should be running into New England.

If CDOT wants a commuter style service as well, this should be something focused on heading to New Haven and Stamford and should be integrated with SLE, the Waterbury Branch, and the Danbury Branch.

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> asull85 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There isn't enough CDOT equipment (SLE) to run
> on
> > Springfield Line as well as the MNRR branches.
> The
> > plan is to run most of the trains NHV-HFD with
> a
> > few continuing on to SPG. My guess is that
> either
> > Amtrak or Keolis (gag) wins the contract. If
> > Amtrak loses the bid, that may spell the end of
> > the Springfield crewbase.
>
> Why?
>
> Amtrak should be focusing on running through
> trains from Springfield to New York and beyond.
> In fact, the best thing Amtrak could do would be
> to through route the Springfield shuttles with the
> Keystones by increasing frequency from New York to
> New Haven. There is plenty of business for them
> in the Hartford to NYC and Philly market and the
> New Haven to NYC and Philly market, it does not
> require any new equipment, and it would open space
> at Sunnyside Yard and provide for an earlier
> morning arrival in NYC than present. The other
> thing Amtrak should be doing is running trains on
> the inland route again to reopen the Worcester-NYC
> and Boston-Hartford markets. Instead of parking
> several trains in Sunnyside all day, these trains
> should be running into New England.
>
> If CDOT wants a commuter style service as well,
> this should be something focused on heading to New
> Haven and Stamford and should be integrated with
> SLE, the Waterbury Branch, and the Danbury Branch.


The Busway to New Britain was originally conceived as a rail spur off the NEC. That's why I posed the question about a spur to the airport, etc. There's potential for commuter rail into Hartford and its inner suburbs, as well as the Springfield to Hartford corridor. There's a huge amount of rush hour vehicle traffic, in both directions. As well as between New Haven and Hartford.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is the expected speed limit for the updated
> section of the New Haven to Springfield line?
>
> I'm thinking the CT folks could buy / lease some
> of the NJ Transit 5000 series cab cars, which
> aren't currently used as cab cars.

It's class IV track with a huge number of crossings at grade, so tops is 79 -as it is now.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The Busway to New Britain was originally conceived
> as a rail spur off the NEC. That's why I posed
> the question about a spur to the airport, etc.
> There's potential for commuter rail into Hartford
> and its inner suburbs, as well as the Springfield
> to Hartford corridor. There's a huge amount of
> rush hour vehicle traffic, in both directions. As
> well as between New Haven and Hartford.

It was conceived by the, now twice convicted, former Governor. He hates rail and tried to kill SLE more than once; not enough kick backs in it for him. The useless busway is the old ROW that ran from Hartford to Waterbury and runs as a third track, essentially, from Hartford to New Britain. Can't wait until it's open and the first massive snowfall occurs. Amtrak will, fortunately, use it as a snow repository as they pass by. The ROW was abandoned when the B&M acquired the line in 1979 or 80 and started using the Amtrak main diverging at North Berlin through Plainville to Waterbury.

Back on topic: it's difficult to run services identical to the Keystone service as there's no wire. Through trains require slots that are not available as they're occupied by BOS-WAS Regional, and MNRR has increased New Haven line frequency adding to the difficulty. CDOT equipped trains will likely coincide with MNRR (CDOT) train schedules, as SLE does now. If Amtrak stops operating shuttles, leaving only commuter trains, there doesn't need to be any schedule coordination with Amtrak's Regional trains. This will also dramatically slow down the route as CDOT equipment will make more intermediate stops. Current plans are to have a shuttle that runs from the WNL station to Bradley airport. Granted this is after the HFD-NHV service is well underway and we get trains further north (it's CDOT, it'll take another 20 years to see this one show up).

In days past when the 400-series shuttle trains would connect or disconnect at New Haven are gone. This coincided with the power change and made for a longer stop in New Haven. Personally, it was much more convenient and I miss the service. Once the wire was up, it was done. The only through train missing now is the one from BOS-SPG-WAS, it last ran in 2005. To back track a bit, the SPV's were initially operated as through cars. A practice that also died for numerous reasons. Those SPV's were CDOT's (not Amtrak's) but wore Amtrak stripes with CDOT seals and were operated by Amtrak. It was the first attempt by the then Grasso administration to improve ridership on the line. ...oops. Fortunately, Amtrak had some RDC's at the ready to bail out the state. Amtrak owns the iron and dispatches the line. If they sell it to the backwards moving CDOT, service will grind to a halt in less than five years.

As for distance, most people are probably commuting to, or traveling to, the city (that's NYC), not Stamford and not Washington. I'm hopeful Amtrak will win the bid as that's probably the best possible scenario, contrary to all the 'anti-Amtrak commuter biz' folks on this board. I've lived here for a while and this is one project that hits home. This week, is the last for the Vermonter to pass by my work place and see its rightful return to the other side of the river. Let's hope this project can follow along and help breed life back into the line.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/14 11:15 by tmurray.

tmurray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (snip)
> Back on topic: it's difficult to run services
> identical to the Keystone service as there's no
> wire. Through trains require slots that are not
> available as they're occupied by BOS-WAS Regional,
> and MNRR has increased New Haven line frequency
> adding to the difficulty. CDOT equipped trains
> will likely coincide with MNRR (CDOT) train
> schedules, as SLE does now. If Amtrak stops
> operating shuttles, leaving only commuter trains,
> there doesn't need to be any schedule coordination
> with Amtrak's Regional trains. This will also
> dramatically slow down the route as CDOT equipment
> will make more intermediate stops. Current plans
> are to have a shuttle that runs from the WNL
> station to Bradley airport. Granted this is after
> the HFD-NHV service is well underway and we get
> trains further north (it's CDOT, it'll take
> another 20 years to see this one show up).
>
> In days past when the 400-series shuttle trains
> would connect or disconnect at New Haven are gone.
> This coincided with the power change and made for
> a longer stop in New Haven. Personally, it was
> much more convenient and I miss the service. Once
> the wire was up, it was done. The only through
> train missing now is the one from BOS-SPG-WAS, it
> last ran in 2005. To back track a bit, the SPV's
> were initially operated as through cars. A
> practice that also died for numerous reasons.
> Those SPV's were CDOT's (not Amtrak's) but wore
> Amtrak stripes with CDOT seals and were operated
> by Amtrak. It was the first attempt by the then
> Grasso administration to improve ridership on the
> line. ...oops. Fortunately, Amtrak had some RDC's
> at the ready to bail out the state. Amtrak owns
> the iron and dispatches the line. If they sell it
> to the backwards moving CDOT, service will grind
> to a halt in less than five years.
>
> As for distance, most people are probably
> commuting to, or traveling to, the city (that's
> NYC), not Stamford and not Washington. I'm hopeful
> Amtrak will win the bid as that's probably the
> best possible scenario, contrary to all the
> 'anti-Amtrak commuter biz' folks on this board.
> I've lived here for a while and this is one
> project that hits home. This week, is the last for
> the Vermonter to pass by my work place and see its
> rightful return to the other side of the river.
> Let's hope this project can follow along and help
> breed life back into the line.

Thanks for the background.

It's amazing to think how much rail could have been added with a small % of the investment in I-91 over the past few years.