Passenger Trains > Metrolink's inward facing camera

The outward facing camera told the investigators a lot and is very valuable. What about the subject of the inward facing camera? What good did that camera do? Clearly it is not a safety appliance, because we still lost Mr. Steele, so why have them at all? Is Metrolink using the footage to see if they can find a stupid rule violation, such as to see if any crew members were not wearing any ear plugs (anything petty that did not lead to or add to this tragedy). This way The Carrier has their sacrificial lamb to throw at the upcoming plaintiffs lawyers?
I understand why the inward facing cameras are there but this proves that they don't inprove safety at all. Time for the BLET to take action.
RIP Mr. Steele

Posted from iPhone

Potential rules violations is exactly why the SCRRA installed inward facing cameras . . . To watch the head end crew to ensure they have no prohibited electronic devices and no unauthorized persons.

With PTC going into revenue service on Metrolink, the rules violations will only get worse. The very unfortunate thing is that they are making the head-end such a "sterile" environment, it is becoming mundane and very boring . . . Another potential addition to a catastrophe.

In New Zealand, they actually have a device that allows the engineer (driver) to listen to music . . . And when there is a radio transmission, the music automatically goes silent.

Last one . . . I wonder why the SCRRA hasn't placed cameras in the dispacthing center to observe and record the actions of its dispatchers . . .

The inward facing camera might shed some light on what happened to the engineers during and after impact.

The inward facing cameras might provide some details . . . However, it is not the main purpose or intent of the cameras.

Remember . . . Metrolink is now the "safest" commuter railroad on the planet. In 22 years and 3 months, Metrolink has had something like 45 deaths . . . Of those, 2 were locomotive engineers and 2 were Roadway Workers (M of W). That's an average in the neighborhood of 2 deaths a year. When you add the passenger injuries over the past years of operation . . . The average soars! Of the injured, how many of those are permanently disabled?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/15 10:18 by Phantom_of_Cajon.

There is a rumor going around that the inward cameras are also mic'd so it's also recording sound and if anyone makes any adverse remark about Metrolink or it's officers they're brought up on charges. When you step on Metrolink property, you're entering the former Soviet Union.

shorthoodlead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>>> What about the subject of the inward facing camera? What good did that camera do? Clearly it is not a safety appliance, because we still lost Mr. Steele, so why have them
at all?

Today we DID NOT lose Mr. Jones, or Mr. Smith because they did not blow by a signal while talking or texting on a cell phone. Perhaps that camera in the cab made somebody think twice before checking their phone. You will never know what bad things were avoided because the camera did the job it was intended to do.

Will it be abused? Yep, it's the railroad. But it's the same all over America.

Tominde Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> shorthoodlead Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >>>> What about the subject of the inward facing
> camera? What good did that camera do? Clearly it
> is not a safety appliance, because we still lost
> Mr. Steele, so why have them
> at all?
>
> Today we DID NOT lose Mr. Jones, or Mr. Smith
> because they did not blow by a signal while
> talking or texting on a cell phone. Perhaps that
> camera in the cab made somebody think twice before
> checking their phone. You will never know what
> bad things were avoided because the camera did the
> job it was intended to do.
>
> Will it be abused? Yep, it's the railroad. But
> it's the same all over America.

Well then, by your reasoning the same could be said in regards to two man crews. You never know what bad things were avoided because of the second person in the cab doing the job they were intended to do.
Inward facing cameras are not needed. Period. They are a discipline tool, not a safety tool.

It's fairly clear after the Sacramento RT rollaway from the yard that human nature cannot be trusted to observe safety rules. People get complacent, it seems.

"With PTC going into revenue service on Metrolink, the rules violations will only get worse."

How do you figure that, by the railroad doing remote cab camera testing or will PTC magically make rules violations occur more frequently???

Posted from Android

DG .
Unknown, US

trkspd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "With PTC going into revenue service on Metrolink,
> the rules violations will only get worse."
>
> How do you figure that, by the railroad doing
> remote cab camera testing or will PTC magically
> make rules violations occur more frequently???

Because PTC will report additional parameters besides "protecting" movement. Currently, SCRRA and Amtrak are determining how much information will be automatically broadcast to front-line supervisors. There are train handling parameters as well as many other "minor" reviews that have been done via speed tapes and direct observation.

More observations = more violations.

RetireMe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Phantom_of_Cajon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Last one . . . I wonder why the SCRRA hasn't
> > placed cameras in the dispacthing center to
> > observe and record the actions of its
> dispatchers
>
> Cameras are focused on dispatcher work stations at
> the new dispatching office.

And does the D/S have to respond to an alerter like an engineer? (pure sarcasm not direct towards anyone)

Have we forgotten? The primary reason for so many recent rules changes and increased enforcement occurred on September 8, 2008 at Chatsworth. The harsh facts are that an employee operating the locomotive was texting while moving. In addition, supervision had also become complacent in testing and observing employees for rules compliance.

TIOGA PASS

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar

No we have not forgotten but this is a different situation altogether. In this situation, with adhering to ALL the rules, an innocent employee has lost his life. The inward facing camera did NOTHING to help save human life. It's only purpose is to pass blame when there is a violation. The cameras are NOT a safety appliance.

aronco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have we forgotten? The primary reason for so many
> recent rules changes and increased enforcement
> occurred on September 8, 2008 at Chatsworth. The
> harsh facts are that an employee operating the
> locomotive was texting while moving. In addition,
> supervision had also become complacent in testing
> and observing employees for rules compliance.
>
> TIOGA PASS

How true! It is unfortunate that rules are written in someone else's blood!

I am all for inward facing cameras under these conditions:

* Works in conjunction with a forward facing camera, same conditions
* Retains only one hour loop of recorded video
* Stop recording tied to lack of movement of the vehicle.
* Required in ALL vehicles (Rail, road, air, vessel)
* Required for all DISPATCH type positions and such governing movements of vehicles.
* ONLY USED by appropriate personal for accident investigation or operating rules violation.

Let's not forget that the crash, like many of these incidents, was caused by a person driving a motor vehicle outside the train. A camera could record information that could make the interior of the cab safer. Airline cockpits have had voice recorders for years and the NTSB studies them to help learn what happens in crashes...

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

Airplanes have no inward facing cameras.

The NTSB doing a review is completely different than a railroad carrier using them for discipline. NTSB using them for accident reconstruction may help, but will never stop an accident from occurring.

First, my thoughts and prayers who lost his life after taking the call to operate a train like he has done countless times before. No one ever thinks this is their last call to work or their call to meet their maker.

Second, we need to stop perpetuating the idea that the railroads are out for anyone but the railroad. Period. After all, this is Corporate America. They will only make decisions to cover their own butts. Same with the FRA. We don't have police type agencies to ensure carrier compliance with federal code nor do they ask for the people to provide information to stop railroads or employees from violating rules and laws.

Third, Cameras are there to record. Ask any rail and we will tell you that the rule book has become only about litigation. I work for an east coast carrier and had a conversation the other day about how fast one could shove cars. No one knows. Yes, there are rules. And laws. They write our entire rulebooks to be ambiguous and only to cover their assets. It's very easy to find an employee in violation of any rule in the book. That's why so many railroaders are heavily against being recorded. As someone said, put cameras in the dispatcher office that can be reviewed. Same as the terminal super or division manager. Allow the public to review them telling managers to bypass safety and rules. And prosecute them the same.

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/15 17:57 by joeygooganelli.

Let's make it an even playing field field across the board. ALL forms of transportation to have inward and outward facing cameras to record a 24hr loop. That means everything from a skateboard to the largest ship. Everything. All crossings and intersections to have 360 degree continuous recording. All dispatching centers to have Vegas style cameras placed in the ceiling for multiple angles.

Where does this insanity stop? What does need to happen is cameras at all intersections within 200ft of a crossing, cameras at crossings and a hefty no getting out of it ticket for stopping on the tracks, period. Now, I know the clown that caused this latest accident drove down the tracks. At crossings there should be a 16" concrete filled pipe drilled and cemented into the ground at a distance of 8'6" from centerline line of the track and have additional pipes spaced so that a Yugo could not pass through. This still won't stop the idiot determined to line up on the track, but it sure in the hell will stop the confused, illiterate, out of state, off the planet driver from getting onto the tracks in the first place.
Off my soapbox, back to the bunker.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/15 21:44 by SP4360.

Phantom_of_Cajon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Airplanes have no inward facing cameras.


Not yet, but I bet they will within 10 years for the same reasons railroads put them in.