Passenger Trains > Anything left after 44 years?

Is there any equipment still running in Amtrak service that Amtrak inherited on Day 1 44 years ago?  A couple of refurbished ex-Santa Fe hilevel coaches are still running on the Heartland Flyer.  Anything else?

Thanks.

Bill Gillfillan
Tulsa, OK

Actually the Heartland Flyer coaches are gone, have been for over half a decade now. 
There are still some baggage cars around. About half of them were converted from Coaches. Both types are actively being replaced by the new Viewliners. 
There are also some heritage diners still around. They are next to go after the Baggage cars. 
Other than that, there are 5 old high level lounges in use on the Coast Starlight as Pacific Parlour cars. 
Also 17 or so ex PC Metroliner EMU Cab cars. 

And "Ocean View", the former Great Northern full length dome car.

BSB 

The answer to this question is a BIG indictment of Amtrak's managment.  They refuse to take care of equipment - new or old.  Somehow VIA rail can field and even improve their Canadian train, but Amtrak runs the other direction as fast as it can.

AND the Canadian's equipment is 60 years old this year. And looks as good or better than when it came out of the shops. Shows what proper care and maintence can do. And VIA isn't exactly rolling in cash from the Canadian government. 

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,2779941 said 22 Heritage diners were in use as of three years ago. (Three of them are ex-SOU and technically they didn't belong to Amtrak in 1971.) I doubt the number of active Heritage diners has changed since then, although it might change soon when the Silver Star begins its experiment. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/15 13:09 by ctillnc.

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> AND the Canadian's equipment is 60 years old this
> year. And looks as good or better than when it
> came out of the shops. Shows what proper care and
> maintence can do. And VIA isn't exactly rolling in
> cash from the Canadian government. 

We just have no idea hoiw long the Canadian train will be around.  It's not exactly within what VIA sees as its mission.

I believe VIA started with two daily transcontinental trains, but is now down to a tri- or biweekly service, with operating timeliness on a par with Amtrak's standard.

Just a question. For those of you who think Amtrak should have just kept all of it's "heritage" equipment instead of buying new stuff - just how long should it be/have been kept? Apparently 60 years is still plenty young. So, how long? 100 years, 200 years? Maybe we should still be using the B&O's original coaches from 1825? And what about other modes of transportation? Are we ready to go back to piston engine planes, maybe canvas covered, wood frame, open cockpit biplanes. Stage coaches. Cross the ocean on wooden hulled three masted sailing ships.  I guess I just don't understand why these 60 and 70 year old cars are better than newer ones.

There also wans't much continuity in Amtrak's Heritgae fleet , it came somewhat piecemeal from a number of roads, east west north and south.  VIA got basically two roads, CN and CP with a few odd balls.

I think the biggest thing Budd stock has (had) going for it is its bulletproof structure. VIA is taking advantage of that with the upgrades to some of its sleepers.

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AND the Canadian's equipment is 60 years old this
> year. And looks as good or better than when it
> came out of the shops. Shows what proper care and
> maintence can do. And VIA isn't exactly rolling in
> cash from the Canadian government. 

The Canadian is not VIA's only train.  What about the Atlantic?  Wasn't most of that train reequipped with European-made passenger cars?   Moreover, VIA's corridor services mostly use more modern cars.

Feel free to correct me if you know I'm wrong, but most of Amtrak's long-distance trains run daily whereas the Canadian, runs 2 - 3 times per week.  Therefore, I would guess that Amtrak rolling stock is much more intensively used.  Therefore, I'm not convinced that VIA is a model for what Amtrak should do.






 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/18 20:28 by RuleG.

All I can say is Amtrak is not the Amtrak I liked back in the late 80s-mid 90s! Now it's just a joke and it's sad to say this from me since I've always supported Amtrak, but from what I've been hearing and all, it's just a disappointment on how Amtrak is now, only positive part until he got canned was David Gunn!

MEKoch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The answer to this question is a BIG indictment of
> Amtrak's managment.  They refuse to take care of
> equipment - new or old.  Somehow VIA rail can
> field and even improve their Canadian train, but
> Amtrak runs the other direction as fast as it can.

Anything belonging to a government or a government agency is poorly maintained.  One it is purchased or built, then maintenance is always lacking.  This applies to Federal, State, County and Cities/Towns.  One exception is the few very large suspension bridges - they seem to be pretty well maintaine.  Perhaps it is due to the toll revenue.

Another thing to consider is that most US freight railroads were actively trying to make passenger trains as miserable as possible before Amtrak finally took over. This of course means Amtrak received passenger cars with perhaps years and years of deferred or no maintenance. Canada in general is very maintenance based. Up until the rules changed it was not unusual to ride on thirty year old transit buses. CP is just now retiring the last of their GP 9 rebuilds.I would guess that in general the cars VIA received were in much better condition then the cars Amtrak received. Also take this into consideration. VIA Rail only had to deal with two railways with cars that were set up the way CP or CN had them. Amtrak inherited cars from dozens of railroads with incompatible operating systems and designs all having to be worked by crews from multiple railroads who may be unfamiliar with how the stuff (like heating and cooling) worked.

Amfleet I cars have around forty years on them, Amfleet II and Superliner I's around thirty-five. These are lasting longer than the cars they replaced. I don't think Amtrak should be faulted for wanting standardized equipment and then being able to keep it running and running. If anything keeping the passenger cars going and going is something Amtrak should be praised for. Running repairs and keeping them clean, that's another story...

Jim

tq-07fan Wrote:
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> Another thing to consider is that most US freight
> railroads were actively trying to make passenger
> trains as miserable as possible before Amtrak
> finally took over. This of course means Amtrak
> received passenger cars with perhaps years and
> years of deferred or no maintenance. Canada in
> general is very maintenance based. Up until the
> rules changed it was not unusual to ride on thirty
> year old transit buses. CP is just now retiring
> the last of their GP 9 rebuilds.I would guess that
> in general the cars VIA received were in much
> better condition then the cars Amtrak received.
> Also take this into consideration. VIA Rail only
> had to deal with two railways with cars that were
> set up the way CP or CN had them. Amtrak inherited
> cars from dozens of railroads with incompatible
> operating systems and designs all having to be
> worked by crews from multiple railroads who may be
> unfamiliar with how the stuff (like heating and
> cooling) worked.
>
> Amfleet I cars have around forty years on them,
> Amfleet II and Superliner I's around thirty-five.
> These are lasting longer than the cars they
> replaced. I don't think Amtrak should be faulted
> for wanting standardized equipment and then being
> able to keep it running and running. If anything
> keeping the passenger cars going and going is
> something Amtrak should be praised for. Running
> repairs and keeping them clean, that's another
> story...
>
> Jim

So when the Amfleets, Superliners, etc. reach 60 years old should Amtrak just "scrap'em" due to age? The key point made above is that Canada is very maintenance friendly. Yes, the equipment Amtrak inherited was a mix. But they went after "like" cars - be it the Hi-Levels or PC Congressional coaches. Most of the Heritage Diners can be traced back to three former railroads, or builders. The biggest blunder is when Amtrak slapped on HEP and did other early maintenance projects in a well....hastily....manner. Some cars just did not get the same quality of refurb as original builder would have done. 

And for that matter - Amtrak has copied certain car layouts from cars it inherited. Not an exact copy, but the Superliners were inspired by the AT&SF railroad. And for that matter the Viewliner II Diner general layout (kitchen on one end (modernized of course) and table area is essentially the same. This all from streamliner age!!!!

 

VIA has a terrible choice outside the Corridor: run 60 year old or REN equipment or shut down. The VIA Rail President has forgotten the purpose of the Canadian run on the CN: remote access, and he considers it a tourist train. If he did not think that, PM Harper would fire him.

The REN cars are not a success story. They have pulled them off the Corridors as they are high maintenance, and coaches not terribly copmfortable for overnight travel. (I have done it with them 3 times on the defunct Enterprise). So now we have LRC consists as short as 3 coaches.

I do hope VIA can exercise the CAF VL-II order. Amtrak certainly will not. At least they would be compatible with their HEP-I cars.

superliner I's are 35 years old now, older now than the cars had  at start up

Wurli1938 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MEKoch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The answer to this question is a BIG indictment
> of
> > Amtrak's managment.  They refuse to take care
> of
> > equipment - new or old.  Somehow VIA rail can
> > field and even improve their Canadian train,
> but
> > Amtrak runs the other direction as fast as it
> can.
>
> Anything belonging to a government or a government
> agency is poorly maintained.  One it is purchased
> or built, then maintenance is always lacking. 
> This applies to Federal, State, County and
> Cities/Towns.  One exception is the few very
> large suspension bridges - they seem to be pretty
> well maintaine.  Perhaps it is due to the toll
> revenue.

"Anything"? You have evidence to support this claim that all governments do not maintain the equipement they own?

dan Wrote:
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> superliner I's are 35 years old now, older now
> than the cars had  at start up

With no plans for replacement either - or at least those that are operated on the LD trains...........