Passenger Trains > New Jersey: crumbling infrastructure, no solution...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/29/nyregion/new-jersey-faces-a-transportation-funding-crisis-with-no-clear-solution.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Raise the gas tax! Oh, wait, that would kill somebody's political career.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/15 09:14 by CPR_4000.

CPR_4000 Wrote:
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> Raise the gast tax! Oh, wait, that would kill
> somebody's political career.

That dance has been underway for quite a while.

Nobody wants to ask the other guy to raise the tax. Wisnieski, the head of the assembly transportation committee has said he'll wait for the governor to ask for money. The governor has said he'll look at anything the legislature sends him.  Nobody wants to make the first move.

(Most NJ legislators remember Jim Florio, running on a platform of keeping the income and sales taxes flat. Within weeks of his election, he and the legislature raised both taxes.

The next election, both were defeated.  Not unlike the "Read my lips, no new taxes" mantra that got George HW Bush an unemployment check...)

Everyday the Times runs on its site a piece running down a Republican candidate, same goes for WPost.  Then on the other hand neither front page has a word today about Federal Judge yesterday ordering State Dept to speed up release of H e-mails. There is enough crumbling NYC infrastructure on Times side of Hudson that a daily column on same would be far more helpful then attacking Gov. Christie.

My question is why was NJT allowed to spend money like there was no tomorrow on fleets and fleets of new equipment when they were sending off their existing stock with decades of service left in them to sit in storage.

The ALP44 were terrible commuter engines that could not even provide HEP to more than 5 MLV cars.
Only the 45 Comet-III cars were retired prematurely. They exercised a cheap option order on more MLV's.

People in New Jersey will simply have to decide if they are willing to pay higher taxes or live with the status quo. 

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> The ALP44 were terrible commuter engines that
> could not even provide HEP to more than 5 MLV
> cars.

Yes.  My recollection is that NJ Transit had intended to rebuild the ALP44 units to increase their pulling capability.  The Germans came along and said they could give the agency ALP46 units which would do the job, and terms that could seal the deal financially.  Auf weidersehen, 44s...

> Only the 45 Comet-III cars were retired
> prematurely. They exercised a cheap option order
> on more MLV's.

And, NJT rented / sold several of those on decent terms of its own.

I'd agree that the impact of cheap money and very favorable financing terms is a huge impact on agencies.  The Germans wanted several thousand industrial jobs and were willing to do what it took to lock them in.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The ALP44 were terrible commuter engines that
> > could not even provide HEP to more than 5 MLV
> > cars.
>
> Yes.  My recollection is that NJ Transit had
> intended to rebuild the ALP44 units to increase
> their pulling capability.  The Germans came along
> and said they could give the agency ALP46 units
> which would do the job, and terms that could seal
> the deal financially.  Auf weidersehen, 44s...
>
> > Only the 45 Comet-III cars were retired
> > prematurely. They exercised a cheap option
> order
> > on more MLV's.
>
> And, NJT rented / sold several of those on decent
> terms of its own.
>
> I'd agree that the impact of cheap money and very
> favorable financing terms is a huge impact on
> agencies.  The Germans wanted several thousand
> industrial jobs and were willing to do what it
> took to lock them in.

Shades of Greece???

Bob

nedzarp Wrote:
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> People in New Jersey will simply have to decide if
> they are willing to pay higher taxes or live with
> the status quo. 

i paid $2.32 for a gallon of gas today ... CAN YOU SAY THAT ???

we have 7% purchase tax ... WE HAVE the HIGHEST property tax in the country so i'll settle for STATUS QUO ...

http://www.cbsnews.com/media/the-9-states-with-the-highest-property-taxes/

Posted from Android

Your property taxes are completely irrelevant.
You are paying NOTHING to use the roads from user fees. The miniscule gas tax goes mostly to the debt service of the TTF.

7% sales tax is quite modest since County government in NJ do not assess a sales tax. It also exempts food and clothing.
Pretty good deal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/15 08:31 by joemvcnj.

PennPlat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyday the Times runs on its
> site a piece running down a Republican
> candidate, same goes for WPost.  Then on the
> other hand neither front page has a word today
> about Federal Judge yesterday ordering State Dept
> to speed up release of H e-mails. There is enough
> crumbling NYC infrastructure on Times side of
> Hudson that a daily column on same would be far
> more helpful then attacking Gov. Christie.

While there's no doubt the NYT is more critical of Republicans than Dems, this article is hardly a hatchet job on Christie and in many ways the Times is only catching up to what has been a brewing issue in NJ and covered extensively by papers in NJ for quite a while (especially since NJT announced their fare increase).  The fact is that Gov. Christie has been much more interested in bolstering his right wing credentials (as a potential Rep. candidate for prez) than dealing with issues that keep stacking up in NJ.  Now, there's nothing unusual about that and politicians on both sides do it all the time.  That doesn't make it untrue, though.

Out_Of_Service Wrote:
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> nedzarp Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > People in New Jersey will simply have to decide
> if
> > they are willing to pay higher taxes or live
> with
> > the status quo. 
>
> i paid $2.32 for a gallon of gas today ... CAN YOU
> SAY THAT ???
>
> we have 7% purchase tax ... WE HAVE the HIGHEST
> property tax in the country so i'll settle for
> STATUS QUO ...
>
> http://www.cbsnews.com/media/the-9-states-with-the
> -highest-property-taxes/
>
> Posted from Android

Can we take your response to mean that your are content with marginally safe bridges and crumbling roads?

mbrotzman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My question is why was NJT allowed to spend money
> like there was no tomorrow on fleets and fleets of
> new equipment when they were sending off their
> existing stock with decades of service left in
> them to sit in storage.

This is a fair question and statement - overall - when considering infrastructure and routes that need expansion (or re-activation) as opposed to spending money on fleet needs. The expensive dual modes are FINALLY doing some good by being on the NJCL. But it's only been very recent (last schedule change) that this has come to fruition. 

The Gov is also facing several lawsuits which seek to halt the Port Authority's underwriting of several expensive projects like the Pulaski Skyway rebuild. That in itself was a diversion of tunnel and bridge tolls originally intended to (partly) fund the ARC Tunnel to NY.

Governor Tom Kean was able to put through a gas tax increase with his pledge that the funding would be directed to a lockbox. And used for road and rail projects only.  Which actually worked pretty well for a decade, until the state leveraged that cash flow to pay for bonds on roads and bridges.  Much of which went to wildly expensive projects,  in key lawmakers' districts.

Nobody trusts any of these guys will spend the money wisely. Nobody at all.  Look at the Taj Mahal of the Lautenburg transportation center in Secaucus. At least 3x as much building as is needed for its purpose.  Or the 30 year old abandoned interchanges in Wayne at Willowbrook Mall. The list is enormous.

jp1822 Wrote:
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> The expensive dual
> modes are FINALLY doing some good by being on the
> NJCL.

Those were originally ordered in order to service the ex-Erie and ex-CNJ routes in conjunction with the ARC project, which was sunk by Christie.

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Out_Of_Service Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > nedzarp Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > People in New Jersey will simply have to
> decide
> > if
> > > they are willing to pay higher taxes or live
> > with
> > > the status quo. 
> >
> > i paid $2.32 for a gallon of gas today ... CAN
> YOU
> > SAY THAT ???
> >
> > we have 7% purchase tax ... WE HAVE the HIGHEST
> > property tax in the country so i'll settle for
> > STATUS QUO ...
> >
> >
> http://www.cbsnews.com/media/the-9-states-with-the
>
> > -highest-property-taxes/
> >
> > Posted from Android
>
> Can we take your response to mean that your are
> content with marginally safe bridges and crumbling
> roads?

bridges and crumbling roads are from TRUCKS ... anything from a 16ft box truck to 53' trailer being hauled by a double sleeper cab tractor ... case in point ... earlier this week i was on major interstate hwy that runs through a NJ city ... i was sitting in my truck taking pictures looking off the bridge with car traffic rolling by at hwy speed when all sudden i hear a loud swoooooosh a second or 2 later the bridge starts vibrating, bouncing and flexing up and down ... i look up and i see a box truck in the rh lane of the 3 lane hwy roaring down the hwy ... the truck not over speeding and keeping the same speed as the car vehicles ... then a tractor trailer went by and and that movement was worse than the box truck ... i thought i was on a trampoline ... the stress on that bridge was violent and this happens a few times every minute of the day ... on the other hand the bridge has NO FLEX when multiple vehicles go by at speed ...

so to answer your question ... no i'm in no way content with the infrastructure of NJ bridges and roads but i believe those things responsible for the deterioration of the bridges and roads should bear the responsibility of repairing them ... therefore the tax should go towards a specific type of vehicle and not a general overall tax on the drivers of vehicles that have maybe a 1% if that affect on the deterioration of the bridges and roads ...

http://www.sj-r.com/article/20150523/NEWS/150529697

Illinois has a direct diversion of road funds(250 million).  My guess other states have less blantant, ie under the cover of darkness examples but here...........
There are all kinds of diversions of  other  "fees" for the general funds.  Fees are for a special purpose.
This is simply fraud.  The whole idea that fuel tax are insufficient is not believed by many for good reason.
Michigan voters turned down an increase supported by a Republican governor.
For years they have been used as slush funds for special projects, now after years of misuse lets raise the tax????

Bob

CPR_4000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Raise the gas tax! Oh, wait, that would kill
> somebody's political career.

Hopw much more can you kill that dead horse? LOL!

Just read the first line of this article: BRIDGES ACROSS THE STATE ARE FALLING APART.

The sky is always falling with these people. And it can only be held up with more of our money paid in taxes.

DH
Tampa