Passenger Trains > [FL] Martin, Indian River throwing in the towel to AAF?

The Treasure Coast Palm has an opinion column by a leading opponent of the All Aboard Florida plan which suggests that "resistance is futile". The July 2 column by Rich Campbell notes the failure of federal courts to block the bond issue, and the appointment of a "pro" banker to the state's investment board make the outcome very likely.

Mr Campbell notes the environmental statement was favorable. No points to hold up the construction. Which he observes is what happens when the proponent picks and pays for the guy doing the study. OUCH! These guys have professional standards, and any serious problems will be noted, although the narrative may minimize them.

The four million dollars set aside by the counties is being chewed up in costs. They're running out of money to oppose the project.

The feds are on board.  A July 1 requirement that the AAF tax-exempt bonds be sold or the authority to sell them lapses was pushed back to January 1 by the Federal Railroad Administration.

Although residents remain on edge about the "torrent of 32 daily trains destroying our community" it seems like their alternatives are rapidly diminishing.


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I don't think they had a valid argument from get-go.  The lawyers are happy, though.

32 trains a day won't "destroy" a community!

Towns along the Metrolink (Los Angeles area) suburban service between San Bernardino and LA see 38 trains a day, and most of them seem to be doing just fine.

NIMBYs have been losing a lot costly fights lately opposing rail transit projects.  Maybe this one will deter others.

Art House

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> Although residents remain on edge about the
> "torrent of 32 daily trains destroying our
> community" it seems like their alternatives are
> rapidly diminishing.

Most of those 32 trains in the "torrent" will be short passenger trains that will pass through in mere seconds. LOL, that's going to ruin the community.

RutledgeRadio Wrote:
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> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Although residents remain on edge about the
> > "torrent of 32 daily trains destroying our
> > community" it seems like their alternatives are
> > rapidly diminishing.
>
> Most of those 32 trains in the "torrent" will be
> short passenger trains that will pass through in
> mere seconds. LOL, that's going to ruin the
> community.

Yes.

I mentioned that on a previous thread, and I've mentioned it to neighbors (in FL) who've made the same observation.

Somebody mentioned the gates will be down about two minutes and 30 seconds for a higher speed train. Compared to as much as 20 minutes for a slow freight going on or coming off the bridge in Stuart. That makes no impact on the discussion. None at at all.

It's not unlike the scene in Animal House, where John Belushi energizes the frat boys with his strident call to arms. Invoking the German bombing of Pearl Harbor. And the resistance of the boys to any corrective comments. Sometimes the misinformation has to burn itself out.

Instead of opposing AAF in Stuart, the opponents should have directed their energy to getting the state to help out with a freight bypass to get the long trains on an inland route (and the promise of a future station).

I wonder how they figure the gates wlll be down 2 mins 30 secs for each passenger train.  That doesn't make any sense.  Gates are supposed to be down 20 seconds before a train occupies the crossing.  The train will pass in about 5 or 6 seconds, and then the gates go back up.

In many large urban intersections the signal cycle time can approach 2 minutes due to pedestrian phases, protected left turn phases, and the need to move traffic on the through routes.
Most citizens accept these intersection delays as a matter of course.
If a large intersection is located near a RR grade xing, then the RR signal has to "pre-empt" the normal vehicle signal cycle to be sure no vehicles are trapped by a red signal when qued over the tracks.
Maybe the 2+ minute claim has to do with how long the adjoining intersection is affected.

knotch8 Wrote:
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> I wonder how they figure the gates wlll be down 2 mins 30 secs for each passenger train.  That
> doesn't make any sense.  Gates are supposed to be down 20 seconds before a train occupies the
> crossing.  The train will pass in about 5 or 6 seconds, and then the gates go back up.

Well, if they are implementing the system where the four-quadrant gates have to go down, then the crossing has to be checked for trapped vehicles, and if any are found by the sensors, the train has to stop before it reaches the crossing, the time will be a lot longer than 20 seconds.  For example, from 125 mph it would take about 80 seconds to stop the train, add gate operation time and a safety factor, and you're at about two minutes.

As to the traffic signal interconnect mentioned in the subsequent post, after the Fox River Grove school bus/Metra accident in Illinois, the pedestrian clearance time was removed from the pre-emption cycle and the road crossing the tracks is given a green at the next intersection as soon as the cross traffic is halted by the usual yellow-all red sequence of 4 to 7 seconds (which time is added to the 20-second minimum so at least 25-30 seconds warning is provided at interconnected crossings).

I'm back in NJ for a few days, but I expect to be in Stuart later this week. I'll time the crossing lights / gates etc at Monterey Road and A1A and at the crazy  Confusion Corner in Stuart. My expectation is 90-120 seconds before the 20 mph train arrives in the downtown location.

The TC Palm notes that Florida  East Coast will be doing track work in the vicinity of "Confusion Corner" this week. Five streets come together into a traffic circle that includes the railroad. Right in the middle of Stuart.

I may need to select another opportunity to time out the crossings and gates down. There's an excellent little bar called Stuart Burger opposite the St Lucie Avenue crossing, and a small wine bar called Crush on the other corner.