Passenger Trains > PATH photography: It's all about the money

I recently contacted the PATH to inquire about getting a permit to photograph PATH trains and facilities.
This was the reply I received (via email).  Names have been deleted to protect privacy.

Dear ,

 Photography and filming at PATH requires PATH supervision, and there are associated fees ($7500/photography; $15,000 film). PATH, as well as other Port Authority facilities, provide many photos of interest on its website www.panynj.gov, Please visit the Website perhaps you may find photos that you may use. However, if still interested in the details of photography and filming policy and fees at PATH, please let me know and I will forward the permit process to you. 

For your information, pictures taken from a public street or sidewalk is acceptable; perhaps you may be able to take some photos from outside of our facilities that would be of use.  

sincerely,

PATH Community

It should go without saying that photography from a public street or sidewalk is acceptable. Not only that. It's legal. Not sure what the PATH restrictions are but I have NEVER been told I can't take photograph from a staton platform other than in once Communist China. And that icludes all the way across Russia on the Trans Siberian.

>  Photography and filming at PATH requires PATH
> supervision, and there are associated fees
> ($7500/photography; $15,000 film).
==============================================

What did you expect?

Dis is Noo Yawk.  Want anything for free?    Fuhgeddaboudit! 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/15 13:15 by GenePoon.

rfprr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I recently contacted the PATH to inquire about
> getting a permit to photograph PATH trains and
> facilities.
> This was the reply I received (via email).  Names
> have been deleted to protect privacy.
>
> Dear ,
>
>  Photography and filming at PATH requires PATH
> supervision, and there are associated fees
> ($7500/photography; $15,000 film). PATH, as well
> as other Port Authority facilities, provide many
> photos of interest on its website www.panynj.gov,
> Please visit the Website perhaps you may find
> photos that you may use. However, if still
> interested in the details of photography and
> filming policy and fees at PATH, please let me
> know and I will forward the permit process to
> you. 
>
> For your information, pictures taken from a public
> street or sidewalk is acceptable; perhaps you may
> be able to take some photos from outside of our
> facilities that would be of use.  
>
> sincerely,
>
> PATH Community


The reply sounds like they're talking about commercial photography.

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rfprr Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I recently contacted the PATH to inquire about
> > getting a permit to photograph PATH trains and
> > facilities.
> > This was the reply I received (via email). 
> Names
> > have been deleted to protect privacy.
> >
> > Dear ,
> >
> >  Photography and filming at PATH requires PATH
> > supervision, and there are associated fees
> > ($7500/photography; $15,000 film). PATH, as
> well
> > as other Port Authority facilities, provide
> many
> > photos of interest on its website
> www.panynj.gov,
> > Please visit the Website perhaps you may find
> > photos that you may use. However, if still
> > interested in the details of photography and
> > filming policy and fees at PATH, please let me
> > know and I will forward the permit process to
> > you. 
> >
> > For your information, pictures taken from a
> public
> > street or sidewalk is acceptable; perhaps you
> may
> > be able to take some photos from outside of our
> > facilities that would be of use.  
> >
> > sincerely,
> >
> > PATH Community
>
>
> The reply sounds like they're talking about
> commercial photography.

2nd that. I would let them know you are a private individual and let them know if you are using the pictures for a slide presentation and for what kind of groups or what not. That is what I usually do when I make an inquiry. 

I did call Baltimore before a trip to the Northeast back in 2004. I let them know that I was a transit enthusiast and that I even drove a transit bus for a living. Baltimore MTA told me that I could only take pictures if escorted by an armed Transit Police Officer. I declined. On the trip I rode MTA in Baltimore from the Marc Camden Yards Station to Amtrak's Penn Station, or at least a station on the other line that was in walking distance. The fact that there was only one functioning ticket machine at the end of the platform instead of several when you step off the MARC which is right next to the light rail and the fact that it took so long to obtain the ticket from that one functioning machine making me miss the direct Light Rail to Penn and their foolishness about the armed Police Officer escort made me never want to return to Baltimore to ride their Half Assed transit system again. I hope your experience with PATH goes better.

Jim

tq-07fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
 The fact that there was only one
> functioning ticket machine at the end of the
> platform instead of several when you step off the
> MARC which is right next to the light rail and the
> fact that it took so long to obtain the ticket
> from that one functioning machine making me miss
> the direct Light Rail to Penn and their
> foolishness about the armed Police Officer escort
> made me never want to return to Baltimore to ride
> their Half Assed transit system again. 

Like all of the other passengers, you should have just hopped on the transit vehicle without a ticket.  If, on an extremely rare chance that you would be challenged by a fare inspector to produce a ticket, merely explain to the officer that you made a good-faith effort to buy one but all the machines were bad order.  

Such is the absurdity of the "proof-of-payment" ticketing system.  

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It should go without saying that photography from
> a public street or sidewalk is acceptable. Not
> only that. It's legal. Not sure what the PATH
> restrictions are but I have NEVER been told I
> can't take photograph from a staton platform other
> than in once Communist China. And that icludes all
> the way across Russia on the Trans Siberian.

PATH doesn't own Newark, Harrison, or the track stretching towards Hudson interlocking - that is all leased from Amtrak.  You would think Amtrak's policy would apply.

The PATH system has long had a policy of banning photography.  Supposedly they use restrictions put in place during WWII.  I know of several people who had film confiscated and/or destroyed in the 1960's and 1970's - back before 9/11 and before people would have taken legal remedies against such incidents.

For non-commercial photography, it is all about paranoia, security theatre, and a corporate culture of arrogance fostered by the 2 governors.

While riding a north bound train on the NEC last month I saw several PATH trains near Newark and NYC.  They were in ideal locations for photography, and the lighting was perfect.  I took several photos of them from the Amfleet windows, and they look great---best photos I've ever taken of PATH.

I'm not going to post them here---don't want a visit from TSA, FBI or Homeland Security.
 

I don't think TSA, FBI or Homeland Security are the enforcer of PATH's regs.

Been visited by FBI twice following photos I had published in Railpace.  Taken from public property of non-sensitive subjects--I was never informed why they were interested.

I do NOT want to get onto TSA's NO Fly list

In my initial email, I never mentioned commercial photography and I signed off with just my name and address. 
No mention was made of any company.  If that is what they assumed, then it was incorrect.

The Port Authority isn't the only one with a strict ban on photography.  In the course of my work, I sometimes have to take a road (public)
that loops around under the Bronx side of the Whitestone Bridge.  There are huge signs posted along the road stating Photography Prohibited.

Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep..........

rfprr

We've discussed the guy who was carefully photographing the pillars under NY's Penn Station from the passenger platforms. The pillars hold up the Madison Square Garden and the 40 story office building on the site of the one time PRR station.

Amtrak police arrested him for loitering and failing to leave the platform promptly. He sued in a civil matter. Charges were dropped, he was paid a few hundred thousand dollars. (Corrections welcome)

Seems to me the police were totally in the right. Photographing the pillars is suspicous. The 9/11 group tried to blow up the World Trade Center in 1993 but parked their truck next to the wrong pillar. The Amtrak police were entirely in the right to be concerned.

I received a PM from a person who says the fees quoted are correct, and were written for commercial users. However, they apply to individual photographers, too. They can be waived for good causes.

The writer mentioned that the PATH routinely hosts groups of railfans, and opens its shops for tours. And often waives the fees, even though dozens of guests and several PA employees may be assigned to help.

No comment about why photography of spaces that are in public view of hundreds of thosaunds of people each week should be restricted, though.  It may be just a matter of habit, and nobody is interested in changing it.

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >  Photography and filming at PATH requires PATH
> > supervision, and there are associated fees
> > ($7500/photography; $15,000 film).
> ==============================================
>
> What did you expect?
>
> Dis is Noo Yawk.  Want anything for free?   
> Fuhgeddaboudit! 

Unlike you, I don't engage in stereotypes about New York.  I've never had any problems with taking photos of New York City Transit, Metro North or NJ Transit stations or vehicles.

Since the PA-5's entered service there isn't anything worth taking pictures of.

If you're from out of state, sometimes it helps if you tell the employee, "I just want to get some photos for the folks back home."