Passenger Trains > Train 7 Dining Car Closing at 7:15 AM!!??

At Whitefish for an extended stay have been at the station often to view Trains 7 - 8.  Two nights ago while standing on the platform next to a sleeper, I heard an on train announcement stating that westbound, the dining car would open for breakfast at 5:30 AM PDT and close either at 7:15 AM or when the train gets through Cascade tunnel.  Last night, I heard a sleeping car attendant explaining the same to his passengers.  That's one hour 45 minutes to get many passengers fed.

Is that not a pretty short time to get everyone fed breakfast on what appear to be very busy trains?  And why close at 7:15 AM when train is not due Seattle until at least 9:30 AM?
I have usually found crews on Trains 7 - 8 to be good.  But does this not sound more like crew convenience over passenger needs?

Diner on the Canadian is open until arrival into Vancouver and Winnipeg (where the crew changes). So what's the difference other than the obvious, two different company's. 

You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out what's going on:  some policies are for the convenience of the crew, and not the customer.  Yes, I did say "customer".

They have been running trains through the Cascade Tunnel for 100 years, and NOW they must stop serving breakfast once they hit East Portal ?

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> Diner on the Canadian is open until arrival into
> Vancouver and Winnipeg (where the crew changes).
> So what's the difference other than the obvious,
> two different company's. 

The w/b Canadian is scheduled to stop in Winnipeg from 8am to 11:45am but on a recent trip, we actually arrived 50 minutes early at 7:10am.

There is a complete crew change at Winnipeg but the dining car crew who will be leaving at Winnipeg continue to serve Breakfast until 9am before they book-off. (and in this instance….for nearly 2 hours after the train arrived in their home terminal)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/16 16:22 by ghCBNS.

I think it's a sign of the times. I'm in my 60's and spent my life chasin cows. I ate a breakfast to deal with the physical lifestyle I chose knowing that lunch time was a long ways off.  The numbers eating breakfast have declined. Just ask Mr. Kellogg. Plus......I suspect more are sleeping later. Then I hear some of the diet program gurus saying breakfast isn't that important.

With that said, I haven't traveled #'s 7 & 8 for a little over a year.  But never did I see anywhere close to a full diner for breakfast when I traversed the Builder routes in 3 separate trips into & out of Montana, at that time. Yes, my travels were "off season" and perhaps that was some of the reason for the low breakfast #'s but why keep the stove top hot if the passengers are choosing to stay settled in? Those of us wanting the French toast with sausage will accept the appointed times.

A mid morning arrival into Sea & Ptld on #7/27 no doubt plays into the coach passenger's thought track when thinking via their pocketbook and pondering the diner's prices. And lastly, the ride on #7 dropping down to the coast from the tunnel is about as serene of train ride as one could ask for. Why go eat?

Just a few thoughts. Over & out.

From what I've read here and there, as well as talking to a couple of sleeping car attendants in recent years, the onboard crew effectively doesn't get paid after train arrival.  I say 'effectively' as I think they are paid on a per-trip basis, with overtime until they arrive at the destination if more than x late.  With that in mind, the diner staff needs an hour or more to get everything cleaned up, inventoried, reported, etc.  They don't like working for free any more than you or I do.  Depending on the train they are on and where they are based out of, the OBS crew may get less than 10 hours off duty time before they have to report back and do it all again.  20+ years ago, when I was riding the Capitol Limited on a bi-weekly basis for about a year, the sleeping car attendant I often had, told me of getting only 4-5 hours rest in Chicago before going back due to late arrivals...especially in the winter!  After the 2nd or 3rd time I was in her car, I had a cold Coke and glass with ice waiting for me in my room when I boarded (back when the sleepers had soda and other beverages available the entire trip).  Needless to say, I was a generous tipper, too...she was very outgoing and attractive as well!     

On #3 a couple weeks ago, breakfast going into LA was served from 5:00AM to 6:30AM PDT...or until arrival at San Bernadino.  That day, we were running about an hour late, so breakfast lasted until about 7:30.  Realizing that the train went from Mountain time to Pacific time sometime after midnight, for all passengers boarding between CHI and Arizona, it's 'feels like' an hour later.  The diner crew also served everything on plastic or paper rather than china, etc.  That simplified cleanup. 

One of the things I've noticed in all my overnight travels in the past 40+ years is that breakfast in the diner is very lightly patronized, regardless of train, 1st or 2nd morning, or time of year.  I've never had to wait to be seated, regardless of whether I'm there the first hour they are open or the last hour, or anywhere in between.  At their busiest, perhaps 6-8 tables are occupied, often with fewer than 4 passengers, during breakfast.  Even free meals for sleeper passengers doesn't get all those passengers as many would rather get a free coffee or juice in the sleeper and get something more solid after a pre-9AM scheduled arrival.  I suspect that prices limit any significant numbers of coach passengers from breakfast in the diner, so they settle for coffee and a sweet roll in the lounge...or have their own food.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/16 19:39 by BRAtkinson.

As others have indicated, this is an "economy" measure.  Amtrak simply will not pay to have its dining car crews give adequate service in these situations.  In the same way, the last time I was on number 4 the diner didn't open until 7:30 pm or so because Amtrak wouldn't pay to have the crew get there early enough to have the diner open when the train left the station, even though it left Union Station over an hour earlier and at a normal dinner time.  I got on in Fullerton and had dinner before getting then.  In the same way, when I'm on number 3, unless it's late, I wait until we get to Union Station and then buy breakfast at the Subway.  This makes the promise of included meals for sleeper passengers something of a joke, but it's the only way to eat at a reasonable time.

Incidentally, I have been on many western trains where the dining car staff had to start a wait list for breakfast, usually around 7:30 or 8:00 am (this is not so true for eastern trains).  For that reason I usually try to get there no later than 7:30 am, even though the diner is usually open for breakfast until 9:00 am or so.  If the train is at all well-patronized, breakfast can be a busy meal.

That Subway at LA Union Station needs to close down by health department, When I there June 2015 waiting for the Sunset Limited i sandwich from there was Bug& Bug flying around nothing cover like to see at another subway. I just thing in Garbage Can corner. I to Hot dog place to eat. What happen that Sit-down restaurant at LA Union Station??

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> They have been running trains through the Cascade
> Tunnel for 100 years, and NOW they must stop
> serving breakfast once they hit East Portal ?

It's just an easily identified landmark. The next one, the west portal is only 25 min away. The one after that is the station at Everett. Going by Sky would give two hours, but how many passengers could identify Alpine or Tonga (hmmm in the 21st Century, how many rails could identify Alpine or Tonga) to know that they need to get to the diner, it's almost closing time?

TAW

OBS crews are paid by the hour, not the trip. And pay ends when we finish and sign out, it's not automatically cut off when the train terminates at the station.
Overtime pay is figured on a monthly basis, and not tied to an individual train's performance. Generally, overtime pay kicks in if you exceed 190hrs in a calendar month.
There is no guaranteed rest for OBS crews. If a crew is turning at the end of a run (14 to 11 in Seattle, 4 to 3 in Chicago, 5 to 6 in Oakland, etc) and the train is late, it (the crew) simply absorbs the lost rest. It can literally be a case of meeting yourself coming and going.
SR

Nearly all Western trains, especially the Chief, Zephyr, Starlight, and Builder, have waiting lists for breakfast and even lunch during peak periods. An extra staff person is usually added on the Zephyr to handle the overflow. Many mornings when travelling from Portland, OR, to Glacier, I've had to resort to Cafe food because the diner had a waiting list and I feared missing my stop. Re-boarding out of Glacier - same deal for either dinner (if on-time) and eastbound.

I have often seen breakfast and lunch busier than dinner on certain trains. 

Granted it, the Zephyr, Starlight, and Builder's peak period starts earlier than the rest of the western long hauls. The eastern long hauls are a little different, but I have run into wait lists - but not nearly as much as the western trains. 

So with that said, there's no reason to close the Builder's diner early for breakfast westbound or lunch eastbound. The often also happens and it is too bad because Amtrak operates as more of a corridor train between MSP and CHI. 

With the a captive audience on the train, BUT the Builder's consist longer than most western long hauls, the Diner needs to be open more than closed. 

Guess this particular onboard crew doesn't realize that if they don't bring in the F&B revenue they may be out of jobs. It is sad when SOME onboard crews just "don't care." I've run into a crew on the Zephyr calling for an abbreviated lunch when the train was over an hour outside of Sacramento. 

Is that noise I hear the sound of Fred Harvey turning over in his grave?  Even in the last few years before Amtrak, Santa Fe made sure their passengers were properly fed and taken care of.