Passenger Trains > Lengthy delays on I-15 south of Las Vegas

The Las Vegas Review-Journal today reports lengthy traffic delays on I-15 southbound between Jean and the California state line.  Motorists are advised to have plenty of water and food with them and fully charged cell phone batteries in case of emergency.   A highway camera shows the southbound freeway's three lanes of traffic jammed with bumper-to-bumper traffic.  Sadly passenger trains in that market couldn't compete with autos, buses and airplanes.  Too slow.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/16 15:18 by Copy19.

Actually, the Desert Wind could. It was Mercer Consulting and Tom Downs who said it couldn't.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Actually, the Desert Wind could. It was Mercer
> Consulting and Tom Downs who said it couldn't.

Did Tom Downs & Mercer Consulting actually say the Desert Wind couldn't compete with automobiles in the Los Angeles - Las Vegas market?  I thought that the Desert Wind was discontinued for reasons having nothing to do with the ability of this train to compete with automobiles in the Los Angeles - Las Vegas market.

Copy19 Wrote:
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> The Las Vegas Review-Journal today reports
> lengthy traffic delays on I-15 southbound between
> Jean and the California state line.  Motorists
> are advised to have plenty of water and food with
> them and fully charged cell phone batteries in
> case of emergency.   A highway camera shows the
> southbound freeway's three lanes of traffic jammed
> with bumper-to-bumper traffic.  Sadly passenger
> trains in that market couldn't compete with autos,
> buses and airplanes.  Too slow.

Normal for the last day of a 3 day weekend. And you could put HSR between LA and Vegas and it still wouldn't change this.
The people who drive are the penny pinchers. They would rather drive and save money.

They would rather put money in the machines and gas tanks  rather than pay for a train ticket.

PHall Wrote:
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> Copy19 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Las Vegas Review-Journal today reports
> > lengthy traffic delays on I-15 southbound
> between
> > Jean and the California state line.  Motorists
> > are advised to have plenty of water and food
> with
> > them and fully charged cell phone batteries in
> > case of emergency.   A highway camera shows
> the
> > southbound freeway's three lanes of traffic
> jammed
> > with bumper-to-bumper traffic.  Sadly
> passenger
> > trains in that market couldn't compete with
> autos,
> > buses and airplanes.  Too slow.
>
> Normal for the last day of a 3 day weekend. And
> you could put HSR between LA and Vegas and it
> still wouldn't change this.
> The people who drive are the penny pinchers. They
> would rather drive and save money.

I refuse to comment on the stupidity of all this anymore.

RuleG Wrote:
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> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Actually, the Desert Wind could. It was Mercer
> > Consulting and Tom Downs who said it couldn't.
>
> Did Tom Downs & Mercer Consulting actually say the
> Desert Wind couldn't compete with automobiles in
> the Los Angeles - Las Vegas market?  I thought
> that the Desert Wind was discontinued for reasons
> having nothing to do with the ability of this
> train to compete with automobiles in the Los
> Angeles - Las Vegas market.

Although I have no love for Mr Downs and Mercer, the Desert Wind and Pioneer were not sacrificed for competitive or ridership reasons. The trains were terminated during the ill-fated "glidepath to self-sufficiency" era. Because Amtrak had retired the ex-Santa Fe Hi-Levels and they were trying to save money by not repairing wrecked Superliners, there was a severe equipment shortage. The Wind and Pioneer were sacrificed in order to free up Superliners for use on other routes.

Bob

The realilty is that one train wouldn't make a dent in this kind of 3-day week-end traffic.  It would take a fleet of trains  ala the Pennsy Army-Navy game specials over a mullti-track main line.  It still wouldn't break even.  And we couldn't expect the taxpayers to finance such an operation to benefit the billionaire casino owners.  Right Bernie?
JB
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/16 05:19 by Copy19.

How fast could a tilt train make the run to Vegas? Assuming that the speeds can maintained

Posted from iPhone

UP crews used to say that nothing could get thru Barstow except the Mojave River, and it had to burrow underground to do it!  The best a tilt-train could do on this 280 mile line is about 5 hours 30 minutes.  You can drive from your home in Gardena to Las Vegas in 4 hours 30 minutes.  With connection times at LA and Las Vegas, (allow an hour at each end or 7 and one half hours for the train trip.  Not gonna happen.  Also, UP crews claimed that there was no danger of the Japanese attacking Las Vegas because they could never have got thru Barstow.

Norm

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar

Taxpayers pay for roads and airports, so why not trains? No transportation system makes it entirely on revenue. You will always have a subsidy. Two trains a day, one from LA and one from San Diego through Orange County to Barstow and on Las Vegas would do it. On the weekends, run an extra train and add more cars. Have just coaches and a lounge/snack car. As to the time. it depends on where one originates, and I am very sure that those who drive to and between Las Vagas and LA on the weekends would probably save some time with the train. Train service should be subsidized by taxing the casinos because they'd benefit from it. Additionally, tolls could be collected on I-15 on a demand basis...more $$ when there is congestion at a level such that driving would be more expensive than the train.

All Interstate highways should become toll roads.
CJV

jo-tower Wrote:
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> All Interstate highways should become toll roads.
> CJV

They are. They take a toll on you everytime you fill up your gas or diesel fuel tank.

Put toll booths every 60 miles. 
CJV

Copy19 Wrote:
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> The realilty is that one train wouldn't make a
> dent in this kind of 3-day week-end traffic.  It
> would take a fleet of trains  ala the Pennsy
> Army-Navy game specials over a mullti-track main
> line.  It still wouldn't break even.  And we
> couldn't expect the taxpayers to finance such an
> operation to benefit the billionaire casino
> owners.  Right Bernie?

That's a bit out of context. (maybe some homework is in order) Private owners are the beneficiaries of virtually all public transportation, just as they are the beneficiaries of highway transportation. The public at large is also the beneficiary.

I got the same argument once upon a time when I was developing a service plan for an intercity rail service and noted that there was a big casino complex along the route. A little research demonstrated that it was a huge traffic generator. I included it in the service plan, new station and all.

The response was that the government has no business providing service to a gambling establishment. That was the end of that...and the government went on about its business of providing service to a gambling establishment...just not rail service.

TAW

jst3751 Wrote:
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> jo-tower Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > All Interstate highways should become toll
> roads.
> > CJV
>
> They are. They take a toll on you everytime you
> fill up your gas or diesel fuel tank.

Gasoline taxes don't cme close to cover the cost of maintaining and managing the roadways and haven't for decades.
 

toledopatch Wrote:
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> jst3751 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > jo-tower Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > All Interstate highways should become toll
> > roads.
> > > CJV
> >
> > They are. They take a toll on you everytime you
> > fill up your gas or diesel fuel tank.
>
> Gasoline taxes don't cme close to cover the cost
> of maintaining and managing the roadways and
> haven't for decades.
>  

Hard to tell for sure, since local, state and federal taxes on fuel are often used for things other than roads.

jst3751 Wrote:
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> toledopatch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > jst3751 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > jo-tower Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > All Interstate highways should become toll
> > > roads.
> > > > CJV
> > >
> > > They are. They take a toll on you everytime
> you
> > > fill up your gas or diesel fuel tank.
> >
> > Gasoline taxes don't cme close to cover the
> cost
> > of maintaining and managing the roadways and
> > haven't for decades.
> >  
>
> Hard to tell for sure, since local, state and
> federal taxes on fuel are often used for things
> other than roads.

Like buses, trains and light rail in NJ

l.a. is spread out.  if u don't live near a train station, in addition to normal driving time to the station, u should add 30-45 minutes prior to the arrival of the train (in case of congestion from an accident, road work, parking, etc.).  IF, u need to travel during rush hour to get to the train station, u can add MORE time to your journey before u even turn a wheel on the train.  this could add a LOT of time to your train journey.

once at vegas, u will need money for a taxi from wherever the train station is to your hotel in addition for the money u have spent for the train tickets.

if u leave from the l.a. basin for vegas between 0900-1300 hrs, the trip is not bad.

as far as lengthy delays on I-15 during a holiday weekend, people have been dealing with it for decades and apparently that is not going to change anytime soon.........

66

Absolutely right on 66.  That is exactly why rail passenger service taylored to that market fell into the dustbin of history.
John Bromley