Passenger Trains > If Amtrak wanted to expand

Where should it go?

Fort Myers and Naples FL have become huge air markets from the Midwest and northeast.

Expand Amtrak from Orlando or Tampa?

Posted from Android

Cardinal daily.

Chicago to Florida

1) Innovate in High-Speed Rail outside of NEC
2) Do a train to Las Vegas, NV
3) Make Sunset Limited and Cardinal Daily
4) Get Sunset Limited to Florida
5) They could buy the UP Coast Line as I see potential in that line

P Wrote:
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> Cardinal daily.
>
> Chicago to Florida

I would agree.  Louisville and Nashville are the 4th and 3rd largest cities without Amtrak service with a total of 3 million residents.    Restore the Sunset Limited also.  While expanding, make the tri-weekly (try weakly) trains 7 days a week trains.

John

Direct service to Phoenix from California would be another.

What's the status of Texas high speed rail?

Posted from Android

I don't know how competitive Fort Myers and Naples would be with I-75 and its 70 mph speed limit paralleling the route. The Seminole Gulf tracks are right next to the highway in places. If I'm not mistaken there's an Amtrak Thruway connection between Tampa, Port Charlotte, and Fort Myers. No idea how well patronized it is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/16 15:07 by CPR_4000.

Unfortunately, Amtrak does not want to expand.

Posted from iPhone

Fix or get new locomotives that actually work consistantly. Then worry about expansion. 

I would say a Desert Wind/Pioneer combonation from Los Angeles CA Las Vegas NV Salt Lake City and Ogden UT Pocatello ID to Portland OR.

A train service   LA-Las Vegas comes up often.  Unless a special case was made, its under 700 miles, so the States involved would have to payfor it.

​In the past Califorina was not interested in additional service from Oakland to Reno, for it would be taking customers out of state go gamble and no state tax dollers could  be used.

​So I thing  LA-Vegas will not be seen.

​Ed

I miss the Chicago - Toronto "International".

A Desert Wind/Pioneer via Salt Lake would be a real winner, service to lots of city pairs..

​When the mail started to be handled, some Oregon staff time was spent on this proposal.

Ignoring considerations like who pays, I'd like to see Chicago-Cleveland  become a conventional corridor. Then fill in the gap between Cleveland and Buffalo and you would have a fairly high level of service all the way between Chicago and New York.

Just make incremental improvements in speed and capacity. At some point you could start branching off (e,g, Detroit-Toledo-Columbus).

Get their house in order and resurrect the routes they took out 1ST!

CPR_4000 Wrote:
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> I don't know how competitive Fort Myers and Naples
> would be with I-75 and its 70 mph speed limit
> paralleling the route. The Seminole Gulf tracks
> are right next to the highway in places. If I'm
> not mistaken there's an Amtrak Thruway connection
> between Tampa, Port Charlotte, and Fort Myers. No
> idea how well patronized it is.

I regularly meet people on the AutoTrain who are on their way to Sarasota, Fort Myers, Naples, etc.  Don't know if t would be a viable market for real trains, though.

CPR_4000 Wrote:
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> I don't know how competitive Fort Myers and Naples
> would be with I-75 and its 70 mph speed limit
> paralleling the route. The Seminole Gulf tracks
> are right next to the highway in places. If I'm
> not mistaken there's an Amtrak Thruway connection
> between Tampa, Port Charlotte, and Fort Myers. No
> idea how well patronized it is.

Maybe that's not relevant. When the establishment of the Downeaster was being promoted (a lengthy process), among the arguments against it were "why a passenger train when I-95 is already there?" Ha-ha. As if I-95 were anything but a penance, and people flocked to the Downeaster. Even Amtrak was stunned by the land-office business in ten-ride tickets (basically commutation fares), and of course the number of runs has been steadily increasing, somewhat to the consrternation of the landlord railroad. 

In a similar vein, the Pioneer would serve eastern Oregon and southwestern Idaho, which are not over-endowed with transportation options. There's I-84 (Portland–Pendleton–Boise–Pocatello and on to Salt Lake City) to be sure, but it's not a particularly desirable road in winter, and of course there's the Aging Population issue. (Oregon's one Republican congressman represents the eastern 2/3 of the state, and he actually supports the return of the Pioneer.)

Amtrak's system could be importantly improved by all sorts of expansions, but there are two big obstacles to expansion, both involving major amounts of money.

Amtrak already runs the wheels off of every piece of equipment it owns, so any new service would mean buying rolling stock. A Good Thing per se, of course, but it requires capital. Lots of capital.

Then, Amtrak would have to persuade the potential landlord railroad to take on any new runs, and for a list of reasons landlord railroads want to make Amtrak pay for any costs entailed by expansion of the system. Presumably one big reason is that the host railroads would prefer not to be bothered, so demand unconscionable sums of money to consider adding Amtrak operations. Not long ago Amtrak was directed by congess to explore several expansions, including restoring the Prioneer. As I recollect, the Union Pacific produced an estimate of more than a billion dollars in what they claimed were unavoidable costs connected with restoring one round-trip daily over UP tracks (Portland—Salt Lake). One suspected that the only way they could come up with such a sum was by including such things as major upgrades to freight yards nowhere near the Pioneer operation, as well as a Christmas-tree of improvements and upgrades having little or nothing to do with needs connected with adding the Pioneer. Now, even assuming that Amtrak could somehow haggle the UP (or whatever road) down to a more or less reasonable impost, it would inevitably be a wad of dough, and a substantial wad, that Amtrak doesn't have.

It's pleasant to dream, though.

msdgbar Wrote:
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> I would say a Desert Wind/Pioneer combonation from
> Los Angeles CA Las Vegas NV Salt Lake City and
> Ogden UT Pocatello ID to Portland OR.

Salt Lake City to Los Angeles is very close to 700 driving miles, so railroad miles should exceed 700 miles and should beat the "state subsidy" rule. Extend the service to San Diego to the south or Ogden to the north, in case anti-passenger advocates want to measure driving miles. :-)

Las Vegas and Salt Lake City have transformed themselves since the Desert Wind last ran.. but unfortunately, the areas around the ex-Amtrak Depot in Las Vegas have gone through redevelopment, and the location is not ready for train use right now.

Portland to Salt Lake City exceeds 700 driving miles. Forget "combination," I'm pipe-dreaming for TWO separate services. Bring on both the Pioneer and the Desert Wind. Maybe Salt Lake City (which has become much more transit-friendly in recent years) could be a new "hub" for Amtrak LD trains?

reindeerflame Wrote:
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> Unfortunately, Amtrak does not want to expand.
 
Except for management, staff and consultants.

Lurch_in_ABQ Wrote:
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> reindeerflame Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Unfortunately, Amtrak does not want to expand.
>  
> Except for management, staff and consultants.

Well, to put it another way, Amtrak won't be expanding except when it has a sponsor to underwrite the operating costs, which categorically excludes all long distance train additions.

Posted from iPhone

As far as the OP's suggestion, unfortunately there is no rail connection between Fort Myers and Sarasota/Tampa (which would probably get the highest ridershio. And the rails that exist don't really go all the way down to Naples (stopping at Bonita Springs). Any rail service would have to be Bonita Springs -> Fort Myers -> Punta Gorda -> Arcadia -> Bartow -> Lakeland. From Lakeland you can of course do either Tampa or Orlando and beyond. 

ETA: Correcton, CSX abandoned the rails from Arcadia to Lakeland. They use the other guy (can't remember which one is ex-ACL and which one is ex-SAL). So instead of Bartow, you get Mulberry which is maybe 5 or 10 miles to the west. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/16 23:40 by chrsjrcj.